🏷️ war

So @joshua [inlink]joshua,119[/inlink] before you have a heart attack that I am a serial soldier hater, I thought I would explain why I am partcularly outraged with @be.

My attack on @be's journal may have seemed like some random attack on some poor little solder boy who didn't know better and just wanted to defend his country. Well that is not the case. Maybe you don't rememeber be|brandon that used to be the dread locked, hippy granola, anti-war boy that worked at coop.

You may, however, remember him when he lived as a woman. You would know him because he wore the skankiest mini skirts and looked a lot like a prostitute. I disliked him back then because I felt as though he was making it harder on gay people by living like she did for what I perceived to be pure shock value. Then, after a while, I felt bad for her because I thought, oh man maybe he is really a woman trapped in a man's body and I tried to learn to not hate him. His newest metamorphosis just makes me sick.

I am outraged not by the choice of a human to defend their country but by the choice of that particular human to become a solider.

And just as @be has the right to make the choice he did. I have the right to criticize him and call him out on his disturbing choice. In fact I think I have a particular responsibility to do so as I am the one providing him with the public vehicle to brag about his new killing power.

I don't want to feel repsonsibile for giving someone a voice who is choosing to kill people just to see what it feels like.

Here is his repsonse to my comment.

Damn, that's some harsh shit. I wouldn't call it ignorance, really. I know full well that I work for an organization that does "bad things." I went into it knowing that. How much did I know it though? I've been anti-war and government forever, but what did I really know of such things? I'm going through alearning experience here that may very well cost me my life. This I also am aware of. Really, as I believe
I've wrote, I'm fucking over myself -seeing how it feels to betray completely everything I thought I had that made me "me." It's not something that most sane people would do, but I'm into it for an aspect of the depths of human experience that would be otherwise impossible to, well, experience. This puppet theatre of world events is going to keep playing out no matter which side I'm on. The sacrifice I make now will allow me to be able to converse intelligently about things that
before I could only have opinions about.

This is reality. If it weren't me, it'd be someone else, and they could've just as easily been me. I have so little time on this planet, and I need to see from as many viewpoints, and learn as much as possible. So, here I am, spending some time finding out firsthand about part of society that people either love or hate. Myself, I don't love or hate. Life is too short.

And shit man, you may as well laugh, because that brain matter dance isn't likely to happen any time soon. I'm more of a minor wound type. However, should my head succumb to entropy before the rest of me, I would invite such revelry. Just try not to feel too sad, just appreciate the absurdity of corporeal existence.
Rock n' roll...

Do you really think @ajay is going to shut up for Christ's sake, lol.

[inlink]joshua,84[/inlink]"The more interesting topic in this debate is how you cry for the war dead, but have NO FUCKING SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER for the people who died on 9/11."

Remind me, where did @ajay say that? In his entry he makes no mention of not having any sympathy for 911 victims.

In fact he says [inlink]ajay,401[/inlink], "War is ugly. War is brutal. War leaves the victor not much better off than the vanquished." Which sounds like he is against war on both sides.

Do you really think that what you say sounds like a compelling argument. It sounds like brute force aggression with little substance behind it. At least ajay provides some links to outside supporting information, seriously Joshua what a lame argument.

So now it my turn to do a little name calling for fun as you seem to have made it appropriate. You can beat me up afterwards if it makes you feel better. At least you could beat me up.

Maybe you never met @ajay, or maybe it is because he is a generally peaceful guy, 3000 miles away that you feel safe threatening him but honestly he is like two times the amount of muscle mass and size as you are about a foot taller. He looks like he could be a warrior and you look like Pancho Sanchez. If there was a bet on that fight I would put all my clams on ajay seriously. Maybe if you fight as a twin team duo. Maybe.

The real question is, "Why don't you sign up to fight for what you believe in?" Take some of the disturbing agression the two of you have pent up and put it toward what you believe in. I am not just saying this to make fun of you. I seriously think you are a fucking pussy for not fighting for what you believe in. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror thinking that your beliefs possibly condemn people to death while you guys sit around on your fat asses, smoking pot and complaining about how hard it is to be you. I am so tired of hearing about how tragic it is to be a Larson brother. Maybe the army would do you guys some good.

The views contained in this journal are just the personal view of Paul and are not written from my position as site administrator.

Washington marked the 2,000th American fatality of the Iraq war with a moment of silence in the Senate, the reading of the names of the fallen from the House floor, new protests and a solemn vow from President Bush not to "rest or tire until the war on terror is won."

Quoted from: 2,000th Death Marked by Silence and a Vow

I am so curious how this war on terror will eventually end. Can anyone see the war on anything as broad as terrorism ever being won? I mean it is such a broad target with no real boundary. I am also very curious how we will look back at this war on terror and on this era in general.

Is there anyone who looks back at Vietnam in a positive light?

Will we end just like Vietnam with us losing and pulling out one day? Will we make it until 20,000 troops dead. I mean can anyone see Iraq turning into West Germany or Japan. Can anyone see the end of terrorism? It seems to me that the more we try and impose our will on non-americans, the angrier the terrorists.



I have also noticed that more and more groups and things are being classified as terrorists which makes having a war against them even less sucessful. Maybe we need to hone our definition of terrorist to something a little more approachable.

So how do you guys see it ending. I think eventually we will just have to give up. EIther that or maybe we will get spread so think that China will decide for us.

P.S. What happend to Osama bin Laden? Is he a terrorist anymore? I bet he lives in China.

I know this is old news but last night while out on Allen St, I noticed that people had made spray paint markers commemorating the victims of Hiroshima and nagasaki. Does anyone know more about this?

@jason [inlink]jason,211[/inlink] thanks for turning the discussion to nuclear weapons instead of site politic. I would most like to respond to your question about " What is preferable, dropping a nuke or using infantry to cut, shoot, and maim?"

In my opinion using infantry to cut, shoot, and main is a better option to nuclear war on several accounts.

Nuclear war make such an extreme abstraction of mass murder. An abstraction that makes killing easier. I do not think that the a man who killed hundred of thousands of people should be afforded the comfort of this abstraction. It becomes, one man pressing a button instead of thousands of people having to cut each other open and witness the agonizing terror of death. Moreover, one man could never kill hundreds of thousands of people with a knife or even a machine gun.

While the Japanese were feirce and terrible, we can jusge this by their actions in China, we also cannot say for certain that every Japanese man, woman and child of hiroshima and nagasaki would have fought to the death. For all we know there were tens of thousands of peaceful, anti-war citizens that lived in those cities. I imagine that at that late point in the war, most japanese war mongering men were at the forefront of the war, and not living at home in the city. Most of the people that were probably left were the woman, children, and old people.

That is how it was for my grandmother's family in Italy. All of her brothers left for the war, with her left much in charge of the family farm. Unlike the infantry option, nuclear attack left no chance for the people of hiroshima and nagasaki to surrender. They were instantly incinerated or slowly died of radiation sickness. The people who were "condemned with no trial" were not necessarily war mongers, yet they suffered greatly for the "sins of their country."

Thinking about the sheer number of civilians and military that died that day anybody with a heart would feel their heart sink to their feet. On the other hand - ...
Quoted from @joshua

I was going to ignore this but I just couldn't. Joshua, I have honestly lost all respect for you. I have tried to put aside political differences we have had in order to try and see past the party lines into the man you are. However, today I remained both stunned and puzzled at you total lack of compassion. On a day when people are remembering the intense suffering of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, you are going to justify the reasons why incinerating an entire city with an nuclear bomb was an appropriate response? You sound like Osama bin Laden justifying that it was necessary to kill all of the civilians in the world trade center.

I would rather give up my freedom or just die than be responsible or even justify the death of all of those innocent people. It is never reasonable to kill hundreds of thousands of people at once. It is never reasonable to kill civilians.

What makes me even more upset is that I am sure you only offer that sentiment today as a way of getting attention for yourself as you know it would inflame people. This may be an incorrect assumption on my part but honestly, but I cannot imagine why, on such a day of remembrance, that anyone would pull out the same tiresome rationale for mass death that we have already heard since 9th grade global studies It makes me sick, almost as sick as the fact that the pilot for the Enola Gay, was at a 1997 book signing in Vegas for his book about it. I think he should have been tried for crimes against humanity.

Account of the bombing and aftermath by a catholic priest

Beneath the wreckage of the houses along the way, many have been trapped and they scream to be rescued from the oncoming flames. They must be left to their fate. The way to the place in the city to which one desires to flee is no longer open and one must make for Asano Park. Fukai does not want to go further and remains behind. He has not been heard from since. In the park, we take refuge on the bank of the river. A very violent whirlwind now begins to uproot large trees, and lifts them high into the air. As it reaches the water, a waterspout forms which is approximately 100 meters high. The violence of the storm luckily passes us by. Some distance away, however, where numerous refugees have taken shelter, many are blown into the river. Almost all who are in the vicinity have been injured and have lost relatives who have been pinned under the wreckage or who have been lost sight of during the flight. There is no help for the wounded and some die. No one pays any attention to a dead man lying nearby.Quoted from: Hiroshima -- August 6th, 1945 | The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki | Historical Documents | atomicarchive.com

Account of the bombing from the pilot's perspective

"Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans."
("Public Papers of the Presidents: Harry S Truman, 1945", pg. 212).

Do you think Truman was refering to this charred little girl?

Did anyone read about north korea's missle announcement, it sounds pretty ominous. I got this swf from the nbc site, note that CA is within the death ring, while elmwoodstrip seems safe. Enough for me not to move to CA. @twisted I think you will have to move here for safety reasons.