"Take it on Faith" written by Jim on estrip.org

07/05/08 01:01 - 73ºF - ID#44868

Take it on Faith

I was just on IM with someone, and they were asking me why I didn't believe in God or Christianity. This was my bare minimum list of things that I would have to take on faith to be a Christian. For future reference, am I missing anything?

- That God exists.
- That God is still involved in the universe he created.
- That God cares about us.
- That God cares what religion you are in.
- That God is the Christian God, not the Jewish, Islam, Baha'i, Mormonism, etc.
- That all other religions are in grave error. (despite those faiths having equally compelling claims and theology to lay claim to this honor)
- That God interacted directly with humanity in the past, and chose the Jews as his people above all others.
- That God guided the oral history of the Jews.
- That God wrote the Bible, indirectly.
- That God edited the Bible into its present form, indirectly.
- That God prevents textual errors from being introduced during copying, indirectly.
- That God would not allow the Bible to mislead us, but would allow other religious texts to mislead us.
- That sins are against God, instead of against other humans.
- That we have original sin that needs to be redeemed.
- That virgin births can occur.
- That Jesus was born to Mary as the Son of God.
- That Jesus is in fact, God.
- That Jesus could redeem sins through his death and resurrection.
- That Jesus' death is the only way to cause that to happen.
- That Jesus rose from the dead.
- That the story of Jesus was accurately told orally for a hundred years.
- That the hundreds of contradictory written fragments and letters from the time after that don't matter, because:
- The editing process to sort everything out was also guided by God, again, indirectly.
- That the Gospels were then transmitted down with no textual errors in copying or translation thereafter, thanks to God, indirectly.
- That the parts of the Bible and the Gospels that don't make sense don't contradict any of the above.
- That if you choose wrong, despite this inconsistent and inexplicable chain, you are damned to hell.

drew writes at 03:50:21 07/06/08 - Comment #36783: I dunno. Virgin birth is in most creeds, and, while I believe it could have happened, it is not an "essential" to me.

Another thing to remember, the latin word "credo" that "creed" comes from, which is often translated "I believe" can also be translated, "I give my heart to."

It's not just an intellectual assent. It's a new way of living.

janelle writes at 03:29:14 07/06/08 - Comment #36782: Jim, sometime if interested, and it would be quite a project, read the creeds and statements of faiths for the Christian faith. It will represent what one "needs" to believe from a variety of Christian view points. "Needs" in quotations because I couldn't think of a better way to phrase that comment, but "needs" doesn't sound right.

metalpeter writes at 12:42:25 07/06/08 - Comment #36772: First of all you can believe in God with out being a Christian you could even believe that there are multiple gods if that is what your faith tells you. Now to be a Christian you only need to believe the 1st thing you wrote that god exists. Everything under that doesn't matter really. The reason I say that is that there are so many different kinds of Christainty and some beliefs are the same and some are different and that isn't even getting into some of the cults out there. There is a difference between faith and Religion and that is important. You can believe and you don't half to go to some building where (no offense to (e:drew) you sound like you are a pretty good leader of your church) a Priest or Preacher tells you what they think is correct based on how they read the Bible. You in fact could believe that god hates us and likes when we all kill each other in his name or that Christ did die and all the stories where just made up or maybe they happened and facts where added that didn't happen or happen that way so that the church could control people, and still believe in god. The belief in god and the belief in the church or religion are not the same thing. I'm not telling you that you should believe in god, I'm saying that you shouldn't let the problems you have with churches and religion kill your faith.

james writes at 10:30:23 07/05/08 - Comment #36757: I honestly doubt millions of adherents of any religion put this much thought into their religion.

drew writes at 04:52:06 07/05/08 - Comment #36752: It's a list of what some Christians believe. Many, even. But I don't believe everything on this list. I would have to count up, but I think maybe not half of it.

To be a Christian, one must give allegiance to Jesus, and reject sin. There are other things that you may or may not do/believe along with that, but my list is a lot shorter than yours :)

jim writes at 04:05:12 07/05/08 - Comment #36751: I briefly took the post down, worried that it sounded aggressive, but it is just a list of what Christians believe, so it can't be that controversial.

Ah well, back up it goes!

mrmike writes at 03:47:46 07/05/08 - Comment #36749: Feel Similarly. good post, lots of spiritual food for thought

jim writes at 02:02:16 07/05/08 - Comment #36744: Oh yeah, Tinypliny, the Bible is great - lots of good stuff in there. I've read the whole thing :) But it doesn't deserve a special place above everything else.

Creating this list, I start to have a bit more understanding of how, if you start from the bottom of the list - the "you're going to hell" to part, it becomes easier to accept the chain above it. Or even if you start at Jesus, working up and down from there isn't quite the leap as starting at the top.

tinypliny writes at 01:45:19 07/05/08 - Comment #36740: Haha.. Take this list and multiply it by 1000. Add 1 or 2 to that total everyday. That's my religion in a "nutshell". It's so extravagant that it's pretty obvious it's a bag of stories. I think the best would be concentrate on the good that came out of it all. The Bhagvad Gita, though beautiful in itself, was apparently and quite impractically recited by Krishna (an avatar of God Vishnu) sitting on, most certainly, a very uncomfortable chariot driver seat to a clueless Arjuna (a prominent prince) just before a major battle was about to begin. Come on! You expect people to believe that you can sit in the frontlines of a major battle and recite a 700 verse book while your cavalry and the enemy cavalry waits for you to finish chanting? :)

Holy books like the Gita and Bible may be grounded in crazy and almost unbelievable stories about the divine, but they are purely human literature. In following the good policies and advice in them, I don't think we are believing or practicing a religion, but just learning to be better humans through the collective human experience. I think "religion" is an evolutionary construct. Somewhere along the stream of evolution we developed the attribute of sharing our thoughts and helping out people who are not even related to us. But the problem arises when we are annoyed if not everyone is interested in receiving these nuggets of wisdom. People who act on this annoyance are the religion fanatics. They will eventually fall off the evolutionary wagon because their selected trait has ceased to be the moderate beneficial influence that it started out as.

jenks writes at 01:09:50 07/05/08 - Comment #36735: bahaha, nice.
I'm with you.

Permalink: Take_it_on_Faith.html
Words: 378
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: video

07/01/08 07:29 - 72ºF - ID#44839

Chainsaw Maid

Permalink: Chainsaw_Maid.html
Words: 7
Location: Buffalo, NY

07/01/08 11:42 - 69ºF - ID#44836

Sharks With Frickin Laser Beams

by lego:

Permalink: Sharks_With_Frickin_Laser_Beams.html
Words: 16
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: movies

06/28/08 10:27 - 71ºF - ID#44813

WALL-E

WALL-E is made of awesome. Go see it!

Permalink: WALL_E.html
Words: 8
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: meetup

06/27/08 01:03 - 72ºF - ID#44801

Wall-E Saturday 8pm Regal Elmwood

Hello,

If you are interested in joining James and I tomorrow for Wall-E, we'll be there at 8pm Saturday 6/28 Regal Elmwood in North Buffalo.

It's opening weekend so you might want to buy tickets ahead of time.

See you there! Leave a comment if you're coming so that we can find each other.

Permalink: Wall_E_Saturday_8pm_Regal_Elmwood.html
Words: 55
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: movies

06/27/08 08:55 - 71ºF - ID#44799

WHAT?!

Teeth?

Permalink: WHAT_.html
Words: 10
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: zombies

06/25/08 01:01 - 75ºF - ID#44783

So Proud and Happy

Our very own (e:james) has been promoted to Deputy Campaign Manager for the political campaign he's working for. I won't go into too many details in case I say the wrong thing, but definitely congratulate him on his exciting new opportunity and challenge if you see him.

Here's to you, James!

Permalink: So_Proud_and_Happy.html
Words: 52
Location: Buffalo, NY

06/24/08 06:48 - 68ºF - ID#44773

Spin Spin Spin

Permalink: Spin_Spin_Spin.html
Words: 8
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: art

06/24/08 02:43 - 70ºF - ID#44767

Ceci n'est pas un t-shirt.

cf:

Permalink: Ceci_n_est_pas_un_t_shirt_.html
Words: 13
Location: Buffalo, NY

Category: meta

06/19/08 07:39 - 59ºF - ID#44723

e:strip T-Shirt

Paul and Everyone,

If I organized making t-shirts would anyone be interested?

Either at-cost ($12) or with a markup ($24?) that would go to Paul for ongoing costs.

They could look something like this:

Also, I hope to plan another (e:strip) dinner for July. Stay tuned! Picnic-ish something other other, probably.

metalpeter writes at 06:31:49 11/22/08 - Comment #42507: Going Christmas shopping I was thinking about how someone said that they where going to get a holiday dinner planned then I remembered that you had the idea of the shirts and I was wondering if enough people got interested and I couldn't remember what got decided or if there was a link to a place we could buy them?

tinypliny writes at 02:11:35 06/20/08 - Comment #36298: Only if it's done in Comic Sans.

HEHEHEHE

PS: I thought it was a good idea to chip in with the costs anyway, the T-Shirt would be a bonus. And yes, love the tortoise! Would be awesome in the black and fitted version. I think I shall go in with whatever style lilho recommends.

mrmike writes at 12:02:05 06/20/08 - Comment #36295: I'm with Chico and Janelle. A modest markup to pitch in with site costs. I'm in for a shirt though.

lilho writes at 10:26:05 06/20/08 - Comment #36283: i want but only if they are going to be fitted, i hate big baggy t-shirts...

jim writes at 09:27:03 06/20/08 - Comment #36280: T-Shirt clarification: you'll be able to pick your own colors, sizes, and men/women's style.

I'll set it up through SpreadShirt, which is print on demand. I'm waiting to do more until I get an order from them for another t-shirt I bought, to make sure that they're nicely done.

Since we don't have to order a bunch at once there won't be any hurry or anything getting together a bunch of money, the store could be permanently linked to from the home page.

Paul, I'd love the original vector so that I don't have to recreate it - I just copied this turtle from one of your old journals as a starting point.

Perhaps I could set up the designs, but we should just put it in your name so you get the extra $$$ without having to step through me, Paul? I don't want to be the middle man in this afterwards.

fellyconnelly writes at 07:42:41 06/20/08 - Comment #36275: i'm all over that shirt... i'll pay $20 for one. and I like that blue too!

chico writes at 07:20:47 06/20/08 - Comment #36272: I think the turtle logo is great! I'd be willing to go along with (e:janelle)'s idea of a modest mark-up to raise a few dollars to offset site costs. ($20, tops?)

Here's an idea that would increase the cost of the shirt a little but might be worth it, depending on what you think and what others think: imagine the tag cloud from the front page of the (e:strip) site on the back of the shirt. It would both give a sense of the content and diversity of topics on the site and maybe speak to the curiosity that the uninitiated might have (i.e., "what is e-strip?")

It depends on what the goal of the t-shirt is... if it's just to provide one more bond among us, that's cool, but if we want to increase traffic to the site, you might consider whetting people's appetite a little.

Is that blue intended to be the color of the shirt, or just the background field of the logo?

paul writes at 01:12:46 06/20/08 - Comment #36271: I also have the basra colored one.

paul writes at 01:12:28 06/20/08 - Comment #36270: Jim, I have the original vector for the turtle. I can get it to you.

paul writes at 12:58:23 06/20/08 - Comment #36269: I want a tee-shirt too. I freakin love it. I also think $24 is too much for a tee-shirt then again starting July 1st it will cost me $99/month to run the site and I think that is alot.

janelle writes at 09:39:42 06/19/08 - Comment #36268: I would SO love an estrip t-shirt. The cheap side of me wants them at $12. I think $24 is too much for any t-shirt, even one for a cause. Maybe $18 for a marked up t-shirt. Just my opinion.

metalpeter writes at 08:16:37 06/19/08 - Comment #36265: I admit that a shirt is a good Idea, I have thought of it in the past but only as a thought. Question does any one think that online community should be on the shirt. Two other thoughts animal wise I know there is a reason for the turtle but animal wise I'm into Dragons and Tigers but maybe a Buffalo would be cool also. I might be interested in a shirt I'm sure I would get one of course before I commit I would want to see what it would look like for sure before committing money.