🏷️ religion

Tonight. 6:30-8:30. A living nativity, with sheep and babies and everything. There are even pony rides for the kids and a pastor in his own brand new Lafayette Church hoodie.

Oh. Should I not wear a grey hoodie? Did they ever catch the bad guy that always wears a hoodie?

This is my second post today, so read the one below this.

But I had to share this link:



I have not laughed that hard in a long time

New posts below, too, but I couldn't pass this up for the 31st.

Luther's theology on the relationship between the church and the state, by the way, led to the church allowing Hitler to do his thing. Sometimes Christians HAVE to get into politics.

The popular thinking is that the two should not cross paths. There are countless examples of harm done in the name of God, by Christians and other people of faith.

So should religious values be removed from the realm of public debate? While some would like this, as a person of faith, I don't see that as possible. My faith involves values that encompass WAY more than the "moral values," that the media talks about. My faith says that I have to work for peace, for justice, for the hungry, homeless, and imprisoned, and for for the good of an alien/stranger. It says that I have to love my neighbor.

How can I separate loving my neighbor from the way that I vote?

I have not found an issue that is not, to me, a "'moral issue." If I could not base my vote on my faith, I could not vote based on the war, health care, marriage, abortion, education, taxation, or immigration am I leaving an issue out?

Should I just walk into the booth a pull a lever at random?

A lot of people see faith as something like rooting for a sports team. It effects how you dress sometimes, what you do on game day, and who you talk to. Some people are more into it than others, but obviously nobody bases all of their life decisions on their association with a team.

However, its not that way for me, and many other people of faith. All that I am is wrapped up in my faith. To say otherwise is to lie.

So, while I hate the blind obedience that was demonstrated in @changeisgood's post, and I disagree with that guy's conclusions, I find myself taking action on global warming, BECAUSE of my faith convition, not in spite of it.

Lots of people do horrible things, with and with out faith. Likewise, plenty of people are altruistic without faith to guide them.

Me, I can't imagine living any way except selfishly without my faith. I know (from observation, mostly) that others can do it, but without my faith, I think I would be all about me--which would change my perspective on the war, immigration, and global warming, to name a few things

Which isn't to say that I don't believe in the separation of church and state. More on that later . . .

PS. really, if anybody wants to take a trip to New Orleans, it will be cool. Scroll down in my posts to check it out.

This week, I had a tough job for my church. Why? Because every year ask people to make a pledge for the next year, which allows us to set our budget. Because I want our service to and connection with the community to grow, I would also like our budget to grow, but that means that the people that go to the church have to give more money.

And I'm actually ok with asking for money, because I believe in what we are doing. (My guess is that Paul feels the same way regarding asking for estrip money--his appeal inspired this post).

Here's my problem. Most of the proven methods of getting people to give are counter to our message. They either appeal to pride (Christians shouldn't be too keen on that) or fear (we believe that there's nothing for us to fear). It's all well and good for Paul to give out titles and stars (and I DO want my title!), but the church's message is quite different.

So anyway, we normally kick things off with a letter. Here's my first draft. (there will be a 10 things I love about google docs soon)

It's the kind of letter that normally gets written by Presbyterians Pastors, with a little bit of Drew style thrown in.

But I was almost ready to mail it and it didn't feel right. So I scrapped it and wrote this letter.

More honest, more direct, less about pride and/or fear.

To be honest, I don't know if it will make any difference, but I feel much better about the second effort.

Last Sunday, members of my Sunday School asked me to teach a class on homosexuality and the Bible.

Which I expected would happen eventually, because really, Christians tend to talk about sex more than anything else.

But I was hoping to avoid said topic, because people tend to fight and not listen and judge when they talk about sex. And I want to avoid these things.

But they really wanted to talk about it, and promised they would be kind, and hinted that a lot of people would be interested and come to hear if I talked about what the Bible said about Homosexuality, and really, the proud part of me wanted a lot of people in my class, and I thought I could make an even handed presentation so I said, "Yes, I will do the class."

But since then I have changed my mind.

And here's why. There are no (out of the closet, at least) gay people in our church. So the class would be full of people that want to discuss an issue that DOESN'T apply to them, and that doesn't seem to be a worthwhile use of our time.

So instead, I plan on offering a class called, "Why we aren't going to talk about homosexuality for at least one year."

Points will include:

Right now, nobody (on any side of the issue) is open to change. If education does not lead to a change in heart or behavior, than it isn't really worthwhile or necessary education, in my book.

Right now, this does not (as far as I know) directly apply to anybody that will be attending the class. It is a waste of time to talk about hypotheticals when there is real stuff that we can deal with in the moment.

Christians have a reputation for being obsessed with sex and hypocritical about it. Such a class would feed into that unhealthy reputation.

Our goal for the next year is to welcome young families and people without a Christian community. Right now, we need to learn how to do this, and this class does not feed into said goal (It also does not feed into our mission of Loving God and Loving People, at least not right now).

There are right ways and wrong ways to develop any ethical position, and I would much rather teach the right ways to develop said position with a non-polarizing issue, so that those same principals can be applied to other situations.

So maybe in one year after focusing on other things, we will be ready to address this issue which I know IS important to talk about, for people of all positions.

So my question, critical thinking friends, is: Am I dodging? Is this a cop-out? Will this make things better? Worse? I am I being true to my calling, both to work for justice and to preach the word faithfully?

I really want your opinion on these matters, so please don't be shy.

Here's a great quote on where I see my faith moving in the coming years. It was written by, of all people, a Chaplain to the Senate, Richard Havelerson. He said:

Dogmatism and faith are not identical! Dogmatism is like stone. Faith is like soil.

Dogmatism refuses to admit doubt. Faith often struggles with doubt.

Dogmatism is brittle . . . cracks under pressure. Faith is resilient, malleable, teachable.

Dogmatism is a closed system. Faith is open to reason.

Dogmatism fills one with pride. Faith inspires awe and reverence.

Dogmatism generates bigotry. Faith stimulates understanding

This is what I would call the old perspective--rational dogmatism is really foriegn to the Bible. Contrast this with the new perspecitve, the one that is in the majority today, but will more than likely go away within a generation or two.

First of all, I have a confession to make. I post on crosswalk.com's forums. This is a forum made up of mostly right-wing Christians. It is entertaining to read the arguments over relatively pointless things, and the conservative take on politics and current events. It reminds me of the world in which I grew up. It also reminds me of this new perspective that I speak of, which is currently dominant. I offer my last experience with crosswalk as a contrast to the humble, generous, trusting and life-giving faith illustrated in the first quote and discovered in scripture.

So, in a recent discussion on crosswalk, the opening post said that many republicans are unsatisfied with the recent crop of candidates because they are not pro-life.

Someone quickly pointed out that Mike Huckabee was pro-life.

Being the trouble maker that I am, I pointed out Mike Hucakabee's position on the Iraq war, and suggested that, while he may be "pro-american-life," he is definitely not "pro-life."

This bothered the other person who replied, "more like pro-innocent life."

Now, internet discussion boards are made for snarkyness right? So I ask.

"Are the Iraqis that we have killed guilty? What are they guilty of?"

Apparently the other person did not have a good answer to this question, because I got a quick response from the moderator asking me to stay on topic.

Now, I must admit that my common sense told me to leave well enough alone, but I just wasn't in the mood for that, so I carefully worded a post about what I believed "pro-life" to mean. I did not mention the war, only that "pro-life" ought to include life before and after birth, in our country and outside of it.

Well, that got me banned. The board called me out publicly and asked me to email the administrator. So I did. This is what I got in reply.

Thank you for taking the time to request a review of your status with our Community.

I have reviewed the post and have concluded that the moderator took the appropriate action. Your post ignored the instruction. Before progressing further, I would like to ask you a few questions.

1. What have you learned during your absence from our Community, and how do you hope to apply it in any future participation?

2. Do you agree to refrain from participating in any thread having to do with the topic of abortion?

3. Do you agree to immediately comply with Moderator instructions?

4. Have you reviewed our Terms of Service, and do you promise to conduct yourself in our Community in a manner that conforms to the rules of conduct as outlined therein? (http://l.salemweb.net/CommunityTermsofService)

5. Specifically, do you agree to #19 of the Terms of Service?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to these questions. Your responses will assist me in reviewing your status and determining your future participation in our Community.

To clarify, this email does not guarantee your return to the Community. However, we are hopeful of a positive resolution and complete restoration.

Sincerely,

Fritz
Manager of Communities
Salem Web Network

Isn't question 1 funny? So I am in full-on snarky mode now (I know, not the most Christian of attitudes, but then again maybe it is--Jesus was snarky with Pharisees, and these guys definitely fit in that category), but I will confess that I wasn't being as kind as I could to Fritz when I replied, as follows:

1. What have you learned during your absence from our Community, and how do you hope to apply it in any future participation?

I have been gone for maybe one day. What did you expect me to learn? I have been reading "The Church on the other side," and that has taught me many things, but I don't think any are applicable to this situation.

2. Do you agree to refrain from participating in any thread having to do with the topic of abortion?

No. I suppose this means I won't be re-instated, but I also suspect that you can sympathize with my decision. How can I remain silent about such an important topic?

3. Do you agree to immediately comply with Moderator instructions?

It depends on the instructions, but if they are reasonable and in accordance with the TOS, I will.

4. Have you reviewed our Terms of Service, and do you promise to conduct yourself in our Community in a manner that conforms to the rules of conduct as outlined therein? (http://l.salemweb.net/CommunityTermsofService)

Yes.

5. Specifically, do you agree to #19 of the Terms of Service? (Included below for your review)

Yes.

As I guessed, they did not re-instate my account. After I dried my tears, I decided to ask "Would you please do me the courtesy of outlining how my second post was in violation?"

And this was the reply:

Hello there!

Thank you for taking the time to write us with your question.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to discuss this with you further.

Please do not email me further until you are willing to agree to the restriction.

Sincerely,

Fritz
Manager of Communities
Salem Web Network

Do you see the difference? The world today is filled with stories of people who were turned off by attitudes like that of Firtz. Salem communications is a for profit company, exercising control, and refusing discussion. They literally questioned me as if I was a child, and while it is their right to do so, it makes me sad because this is the way that so many who call themselves Christians behave.

But this attitude does not come from faith. It comes from dogmatism.

And the Apostle Paul said that when everything else goes away, faith, hope and love will remain. This is a good thing. Thanks for being patient with this long rant.

A good exchange regarding right wing students/political activisits at slate.com.

Here are a number of helpful tips, if you are the focus of aggressive and/or pushy people who are "sharing" their faith. Not all of these necessarily should be used every time, they are just different tools one may utilize, depending on the situation.

a. If you are in a public place, just keep walking. Like a lion, they are more likely to go after the slowest in the heard.

b. Politely explain that you are happy with your beliefs right now, and are not seeking to change them. This will not work with everybody, but it will satisfy reasonable people.

c. Politely refuse to answer any questions, and then remain silent. Most of the time, the person will be working from a script (consciously or not) that requires a response. Deny that, and he or she is in a rough place.

d. If you are comfortable lying, tell them what they want to hear. Your answer key: If you were to die today, you would go to heaven, not because you are a good person, but because you trust in Jesus Christ. And yes, you already worship at a church (use mine if you would like). (NOTE: This is the conservative Christian answer key. Mormons and Scientologists will need something different). I'm not saying that you should lie, but if you DO lie, this is an easy out.

e. If a person begins a conversation because they see that you are with your same sex partner, I would not recommend any conversation at all--the "conversation" is not likely to move past sexuality.

f. Ask for something in writing, so that you may consider their ideas at the time and place of your choosing. (I stole this one from the "how to deal with telemarketers" file.)

g. remain calm, and stick together with your friends.

h. if you really feel gutsy (and you have time), ask a person to back up their claims from scripture. A surprising number of people will not be able to do this, or will do so while distorting scripture in a way that is easy to see.

Ok, I don't really recommend this one for most people, but it is fun if you know your Bible to actually engage.

i. If you DO engage, ask about the big picture. Some people will ask you to believe/do something so specific in order to attain salvation that most people who have professed to be Christians (even some people in the Bible!), throughout time and history, would not be able to believe/do.

j. Ask questions. This is, I think, a good thing for everybody that engages. The more you can get a person talking off of their script, the more you will see who they really are.

k. Share your own experience (again, this is another "advanced technique"), due so in such a way that will not give the person ammunition, but will cause them to see you as a person, rather than a soul to be converted.

j. Ask to see a miracle. I don't really think this will help, but it might be interesting to try!

l. Tell the person that you are willing to try their belief system if they will try yours, first.

m. pretend not to speak English.


That's enough for now.

Short answer: yes. As seen in the post that inspired this, from last week by @paul, it is perfectly clear. Add abortion clinic bombings, terrorism, and the crusades, and it's simple. Religion brings all kinds of problems into this world.

Then, why, pray tell (haha! pun!) would I so involved in religion?

There's a few reasons: In no particular order--

a. (using letters so this is not confused with my "10 things lists") We are, by nature, religious people. By saying this I mean to say that we are all prone to ask questions about meaning for our life, and we are all likely to give ourselves in worship. I believe that even those of us that deny the existence of GOD have other "gods," because we need them. My devotion to u2 and to the Steelers is borderline religious. I know that is pathetic, but I offer it up as an example. Our tendencies to ask "why," to connect with other people, and to give ourselves to something bigger than ourselves are religious tendencies.

b. Religion is still a force for good. Ironically, religious people invented the ideas of religious tolerance and of the separation of church and state. Although we have been on the wrong side of these issues, too, Christians were the driving force behind most of the positive progressive social movements in this country.

c. The best cure for bad religion is not "no religion," but "good religion." This is just my opinion, of course, but I think that the best way to help Christians that behave badly is not to ask them to abandon their devotion (unlikely, to say the least) but to show them a truer picture of the one they are devoted to. I really do believe that the best picture of true justice and true grace is found in Jesus as shown in the Bible. Name calling, threatening encounters such as the one that @paul had to deal with are, to put it simply, inconsistent with how Christians are called to act. Good religion seeks the best, not for itself exclusively, but especially for its non-adherents.

d. Personal experience. I know that this is different for everybody, but based on what I know and what I've experienced, I believe that God exists, that he existed on earth in the person of Jesus Christ, and that those statements affect everything about the way that I live my life. I COULD try to make sense of those things on my own, but I am better off trying to do so with other people, and that's the seed of religion.

I think my next post will be a guide for non-believers and believers to deal with scary people of faith.