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libertad’s journal

I don't want the friggin bag

I can't take it anymore. Why do I have to be forced to take a plastic bag when I go to a store? Time after time, regardless of the store, I have these bags shoved down my throat. I try as hard as I can to yell out that I have a bag before they grab my items and toss it in the fresh plastic but often I am too slow and they are too fast. Very nicely I apologize and tell them I have a bag and I ask them to please use it for the next customer but most times I see them crumple it up and throw it out. I see this almost everywhere with the exception of most people who work at the Co-Op. I have been told that by law I must take a single beer out of the store in a plastic bag despite just putting it in the cloth bag that I have with me. Sometimes I have resorted to begging them to not give me a bag and even that doesn't work. I think if I ever snap it is going to be because of this issue.

How did this culture get started? It just makes no sense at all. It costs the company money to make these bags. I'm not saying that I don't think bags should be offered. I really am not an extremist, I actually am quite reasonable. Sometimes I like to have bags available because we all find ourselves needing them for unexpected purchases one time or another. I just don't get what is wrong with these cashiers that just toss a bag in the trash after I ask them to use it for another customer. Do they hate the earth and want to see it destroyed? is their bagging speed so greatly increased by throwing away the bag I rejected instead of taking the extra second it might take to use that same bag for someone else? I don't think that there really is any reasonable answer for why we do things the way we do.

Since logic and reason does not motivate us, then I believe the answer is to tax the bags. I'm not sure exactly how the logistics of it would work out but I'm thinking .10 to .25 a bag (paper included). The tax would put the burden on the customer not the business. The funds from the tax should be used for cleaning trash from our waterways. Maybe some of the money could be returned to the customer if they bring the bags back for recycling (again logistics)?

This tax I think is different from other taxes including the cigarette tax because the customer really has a choice and can very easily change their ways to avoid the tax. My proposed tax would also benefit us all without being a huge financial burden for our government or even the people who choose to pay the bag tax by opting not to use re-usable bags. If there was a bag tax everyone would win except the plastic bag workers. I know some people want to live in anarchy and don't want the government taxing things but I really think that this would be a good move on the federal level. I think, as evidenced by the oil spill in the gulf, that what we are doing is not working and we are all going to suffer for it. One person's right to throw away a plastic bag is infringing on another person's right to live in a clean and healthy environment.
596 words

💬 19 comments

  1. tinypliny ·

    Hmm... I have managed to not get a single unrequested bag from grocery stores for the past two years. However, I will admit that I do make mistakes. Sometimes, I forget to take my own bag or buy more things than I can fit in the bag I have (always an ominous sign anyway).

    I shop a lot in Pricerite and at Guercios. Pricerite doesn't give anyone any bags unless they request it and at Guercios, they listen to me, smile and then help load stuff in my bag! :-)

    I think there is a trick to getting your request across in other stores (eg. walgreens, weggers etc.). You need to make eye contact with the checkout clerk way before your turn comes. That way, the clerk looks at your before automatically tossing the first thing into the waiting plastic bag.

    I don't wait for them to start the "how's it going" checkout small talk. I start it while the customer before me is swiping their credit card or in the process of paying. It works every time without fail. You smile a great big smile and they have to look at you and smile back (I expect it will be really easy for you, since you are a natural headturner. ;^)) And then you say something pleasant - anything, so they can place your voice when you give them another huge smile and say "Please, no bags for me!" next.

    Seriously, try it! I call it the P-BAR (Plastic-Bag-Avoidance-Routine).

  2. james ·

    Ireland has a small tax on plastic bags that has been dramatic in reducing consumption, by a whopping 90%! :::link:::

    This is something I have been trying to implement in the city, but it seems we don't quite have the authority to do it without the county on board.

  3. tinypliny ·

    Aren't they illegal in San Francisco? (There's a legal precedent.)

  4. paul ·

    In germany we had to pay like 5 or 10 cents per plastic bag. It usually made us bring our cloth ones.

  5. libertad ·

    That is exactly my point @tinypliny. We shouldn't have to have strategies in order to avoid being given a bag. I can't believe I forgot to mention how great Guercio's is when it comes to plastic bag avoidance. The funny thing is that I always secretly want their plastic bags because they are the best around. They are smooth and don't make noise and are thicker than usual. I will try the P-BAR the next time I am out while I'm waiting for the bag tax. I do try to be really nice when I go to a cashier, next time I will kill them with my kindness and make eye contact asap.

    @james that is awesome that you are doing what you can. Good to know about the county. Maybe we can convince our "government should be run like a business" Executive, Chris Collins, that this would be good for business and the county? Thanks for the link to the article about the sucess of Ireland's bag tax.

    Sometimes at Wegman's I give them my cloth bags right away but they still wrap my items in plastic before they put it in the bag. This includes non toxic cleaners, stuff as harmless as baking soda.

  6. uncutsaniflush ·

    @libertad - I've had no problems buying a 6 pack and having it packed in my reusable "wegmans" bag at Wegmans and Rite-aid.

    To avoid problems, I place my reusable bags at on top of my first item or at the beginning of my stuff depending on how much I am buying. Sometimes the cashiers have a hissy fit but my stuff always ends up in the bags I brought.

    If you have problems with cashiers at Wegmans ask to speak to the front end manager. If that doesn't work ask to speak to the Manager on Duty. If that doesn't work, call Wegman's corporate. Keep your receipt. Try to remember or write down who you spoke with. They will eventually listen if you have documentation.

  7. libertad ·

    Ok, I'm tonot looking for advice on how

  8. libertad ·

    sorry i didn't finish what I was saying. I am not looking for advice on how to avoid getting a bag. I do the things you both have recommended. The problem is much deeper than just my desire to reduce my bag usage. e:uncut, what I was said about Wegmans cashiers is that they often will wrap my items in plastic before they put it in my cloth bag. I also said my trouble with beer was with a single beer and that was at another store not Wegmans.

  9. uncutsaniflush ·

    Yes, @libertad, I got that meant you meant single beers which is why I specifically talked of six-packs.

    I share your frustration on the amount of plastic we get when shopping. Even though, we recycle the bags, it would be better not to have them to recycle in the first place.

    The reason that I mentioned complaining to the Wegmans management food chain is because I have learned talking to cashiers at Wegmans over the years that they are trained to put certain items into plastic before placing the item in another bag. If a cashier is still under probation, the cashier could get into trouble for not doing it. The newer the cashier the more likely he or she is to follow the rules.

    I'll end by quoting Neil Young, "Take my advice, don't listen to me." <g>

  10. jason ·

    I would rather Wegman's have the money than the government, who inevitably squanders every penny. Although it's not as aggravating as a gas tax or a cigarette tax, it would still be regressive and the poorer among us would still be punished for not making the green choice.

    I'm not sure if it's legit, or for that matter a federal bag tax, but the gov't could compel stores to charge for the bags. Maybe the government could take a piece. Honestly I don't think 0.25 per bag is really going to change the behavior of most people anyway, regardless of who gets the money. You would have to make it really punitive, like a buck a piece or more.

    If someone put a gun to my head and told me to make a choice, I would prefer an all out ban on plastic bags to a tax. It's more honest, and it doesn't cause government to become dependent in some way on that tax. If the government is making free money on plastic bags will they want those bags to go away? I'm not so sure about that.

    Good, constructive thought Libertad. In the end I would rather see the plastic bags go away as well but I don't have any good ideas.

  11. ladycroft ·

    i hear ya. looking at the way they waste bags here would make your skin crawl. i only hope that by pushing education on the subject will slowly start to change things.

  12. james ·

    It isn't so much that people are unwilling to spend 25 cents a bag, it is that a reusable bag would cost a dollar. That sort of math makes sense to people.

  13. jason ·

    How many of you keep reusable bags in your car, etc? If so, how many bags?

  14. jenks ·

    I keep my bags (4) in my car, but often forget to take them inside. :(

    I am one of the evil monsters that uses plastic bags. Sorry everyone.

    (but I don't throw them away... they get stashed in the kitchen cabinet and reused as lunch bags, etc.)

    And along the 'bag tax' lines- some places offer refunds for every bag of your own you bring in- but it's only 5c. So if I brought in 20 bags, I'd only save a dollar? I'm sorry, but that kind of money is not going to motivate anyone.

    At first I thought "25c per bag?! that's a ton!" But then I realized that even on a 'big' grocery shop, say 8-10 bags, it's still only a couple bucks... Not unreasonable.

  15. uncutsaniflush ·

    In case anyone cares, there is no law in New York State that forces a store to put your beer, wine or booze in a bag according to Leslie W. Trebby, an associate attorney in the SLA’s Office of Counsel who said "I have reviewed the New York Alcoholic Beverage Control Law and the Rules of the New York State Liquor Authority and have found no provision that requires a grocery store licensed to sell beer (or a retail package liquor store) to place a purchased alcoholic beverage item into a bag

    In the absence of a provision in the ABC Law or in the Authority’s rules specifically addressing this issue, I am of the view that the seller is under no legal obligation to place the purchased item into a bag." :::link:::

    @jason - to answer your question @leetee and I keep reusable bags in our cars. I start out with 4 or 5 Wegmans bags and end up with zero. Since I rarely remember to put them back in the car until they are all gone.

  16. metalpeter ·

    I can remember that at one time all you could get where Paper bags, and then many places moved into Plastic. Then place had both and the combo (paper inside the plastic bag). If what I remember is correct during the early days and maybe even now if you wanted the non perfered bag of the place you had to ask for it and often wouldn't get it. I'm not saying it is ok, but from what I understand Cashiers (not all of them) are trained to bag a certain way and to go for quickness. I'm guessing that other kind of bag throws them off. I also wonder if it as an automatic thing, you do something over and over again and someone hands you a differnt option and you just do it your way. I don't know if they still do this or not. But when I was a kid they had bagging contests. You bagged stuff and then they ripped the papper bag and everything was supposed to stay in place and nothing would be crushed. The Point I'm aiming at is if you went into a store where everyone used canvas and you where the one person who wanted Plastic cause you recylce it or use it as a poper scoper or what ever I think the same reaction would happen a lot.

    In Terms of taxing bags, I think that is a bad idea. I think that it is up to the consumer to pick what kind of bag they want. Often times taxs just wind up being a tax on the poor. Let take the sterotypical poor family or single mother with multiple kids. Is she really going to go buy a bunch of nice bags (so her kids can destory them and mess them up at home) that she doesn't have the extra cash for. So that tax gets put on her and the people with more money buy the nice bags. My other problem with the tax is would it be on both plastic and paper, if you have heavy stuff would you then have to ask for double bags and get taxed more. Also what about places like price rite where you pay for the bags how much would those go up.

    I'm not sure what the best way to do it is. I think plasstic and Paper bags should have incentives to recycle them. I have heard that you can do it at tops and Wegman's but not sure how many people know about it. Maybe all stores should do that. Or maybe they should just have a cart system where you push a button and it says put Items back into cart then you take it out to your car (if you drive) and put it in that way. Or maybe there is some law that says all check out isles have a button you push and it tells the cashier who in most places is the bagger now, those used to be 2 different jobs, what way you want it bagged.

  17. heidi ·

    I have about four reusable bags in my truck. I use them pretty consistently and only occasionally end up with a plastic bag, which I use to line the bathroom trash can. As soon as I'm done emptying them, I put them all on the door knob so I remember to take them out next time I leave. I love how much stuff you can stuff in one - instead of 8-10 plastic bags to deal with, I have four reusables. The handles are also much more comfortable to haul heavy loads up the stairs than plastic bag handles. (I posted pix of my community org's reusable bag project back in '08 :::link::: )

  18. libertad ·

    Thank you so much e:uncut for the info. The absurd thing about giving a bag to someone who is buying a single beer is that it is probably the most likely to become litter. How many of these bags enter the waterways causing extensive damage?

    I am absolutely certain that even the poorest of the poor would not be burdened by this bag tax. They simply will not take a bag. Poor people know how to live without spending a dime. A re-usable bag costs .99 and often is given away. If you want to help the most poor the best way is to give them an incentive to pick up plastic bags they find carelessly tossed into the wind. Paying them per bag or per pound of plastic they retrieve will motivate them to return to be recycled.

    Banning plastic bags all together has some disadvantages. First, people would not be able to consume as much being bad for the economy. I will use a disposable bag when I do not anticipate that I will be shopping. If I had no way of carrying home any of my impulse buys I would not be able to make the purchase. Much of our economy is based on such impulse purchases. Second, we would have the inconvenience of not being able to bring home our impulse buys. Some of my best purchases are of these kind. Third, you would have an immediate lay off of the entire bag industry. They need to be found jobs elsewhere first.

    The other reason this tax will help the poor is that they will find that many of the re-usable bags available to us make it much easier to carry what we are consuming. Poor people walk, bike and use public transport. There biggest benefit of the tax is surely being enticed to find out how much easier it is for you to carry your items in a re-usable bag. With a reusable bag you utilize your shoulders, where as the plastic and paper force you to use many more muscles to carry the same items.

    Mike carries re-usable bags in his car. I almost always have a back pack and sometimes I keep a cloth bag inside of it.

    @jenks, you would have helped the environment more if you didn't obtain your re-usable bags and then not use them. Most of those bags are often made of plastics and synthetics anyways. By not using them you are doing twice the damage.

  19. jenks ·

    i know, I know.

    I am a horrible planet destroying monster.

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