So the auto makers say to the government: now that people aren't spending money they don't have, they're not buying cars they don't need and there's nothing left for us to make. If we go out of business, look at all these people who will be out of jobs. You can't let that happen.
The government will hem and haw long enough to make it look like they don't want to do it, but eventually they will have pity on all these people who will be out of jobs and give billions of dollars to their employers.
The auto manufacturers will say thanks for the cash but we're still a little bit fucked, so ... we're still going to have to lay these people off.
At which point we'll look at all these people who are now out of jobs and say: was this really worth it?
When the government's done hemming and hawing I think it would be better if they said you know what? The auto industry has been opposed to the government meddling in their affairs for years and maybe now is not the time to start. So this multibillion dollar bailout package goes to the employees caught in the middle when you go out of business.
Could somebody tell me why that's crazy?
- Z
Zobar's Journal
My Podcast Link
11/13/2008 21:08 #46681
call me crazyCategory: politics
11/12/2008 13:15 #46658
back to normalCategory: misc
I guess I'm back to posting geeky things I found on the Internet. Today's installment: Super Obama World 
a Flash game that starts in Alaska and ends, um, somewhere else in Alaska but they say they're going to add more levels.
My nephew is recovering from his skull surgery, so I can stop thinking about how gross that is. He's going to be in a special reshaping helmet for I think 3-4 months? so we were asked to send stickers. I need to find one of the Great Gazoo.
I had a weird dream this morning. I was on the bus and people were talking about the war. From context I gathered that it had just ended, ilke, in the time it takes to walk to the bus stop. So finally I asked and they said that after the election the president canceled the war. He said the will of the people was clear and just called it off, like that. I woke up because it seemed funny to me that the will of the people would matter.
In other nattering, I'm working with another consultant who is good at programming but bad at estimating time requirements. He says he'll be done by a certain date so, the client being impatient, the boss will schedule a demo for the afternoon of that date. When deadline comes, either the boss will get a panicked email first thing in the morning saying it isn't done, or no communication at all. This has caused no small amount of tension between client and boss, and between boss and consultant. It really only gets on my nerves when I get a panicked call from the boss to come in to the office and instant-learn .NET* so he can give a demo that looks like it works. But anyway.
So the boss was kvetching to me, because I'm the good consultant. And it's not that he works slow [he doesn't, really] but that he makes deadlines he can't meet. So I said yeah, if you say it'll be easy and you miss deadline you look like an incompetent. If you start right out with 'I don't think that's possible' you look like a genius if you deliver anything at all. Hints for living, I guess.
- Z
_______________
a Flash game that starts in Alaska and ends, um, somewhere else in Alaska but they say they're going to add more levels.My nephew is recovering from his skull surgery, so I can stop thinking about how gross that is. He's going to be in a special reshaping helmet for I think 3-4 months? so we were asked to send stickers. I need to find one of the Great Gazoo.
I had a weird dream this morning. I was on the bus and people were talking about the war. From context I gathered that it had just ended, ilke, in the time it takes to walk to the bus stop. So finally I asked and they said that after the election the president canceled the war. He said the will of the people was clear and just called it off, like that. I woke up because it seemed funny to me that the will of the people would matter.
In other nattering, I'm working with another consultant who is good at programming but bad at estimating time requirements. He says he'll be done by a certain date so, the client being impatient, the boss will schedule a demo for the afternoon of that date. When deadline comes, either the boss will get a panicked email first thing in the morning saying it isn't done, or no communication at all. This has caused no small amount of tension between client and boss, and between boss and consultant. It really only gets on my nerves when I get a panicked call from the boss to come in to the office and instant-learn .NET* so he can give a demo that looks like it works. But anyway.
So the boss was kvetching to me, because I'm the good consultant. And it's not that he works slow [he doesn't, really] but that he makes deadlines he can't meet. So I said yeah, if you say it'll be easy and you miss deadline you look like an incompetent. If you start right out with 'I don't think that's possible' you look like a genius if you deliver anything at all. Hints for living, I guess.
- Z
_______________
- I'm such a n00b- is it .NET now? Didn't it used to be .net?
11/11/2008 10:16 #46641
cleverCategory: a series of tubes
I heart stop-motion animation. This is from PES:
Check out his other stuff - 'Western Spaghetti' is cute and 'KaBoom' is really well done.
- Z
Check out his other stuff
- 'Western Spaghetti' is cute and 'KaBoom' is really well done.- Z
dragonlady7 - 11/11/08 11:08
Holy shit that's friggin adorable!
Holy shit that's friggin adorable!
hodown - 11/11/08 10:35
So cute!
So cute!
theli - 11/11/08 10:30
Hah, awesome!
Hah, awesome!
11/09/2008 21:10 #46618
pretty keenCategory: geeky
From the 'I wish I'd thought of it first' file, the world's first $200 HSDPA ocarina
I lost this weekend to an emergency instaproject. It was a necessary thing that will let us offload a crapton of work onto the client; I just wish it hadn't been sprung on me so late for delivery so soon. I don't think I've ever spent so much effort shirking responsibility.
- Z
I lost this weekend to an emergency instaproject. It was a necessary thing that will let us offload a crapton of work onto the client; I just wish it hadn't been sprung on me so late for delivery so soon. I don't think I've ever spent so much effort shirking responsibility.
- Z
11/08/2008 09:34 #46602
morning in americaCategory: politics
Cat and Girl sums it up for me:
- Z
sums it up for me:
- Z
tinypliny - 11/08/08 11:09
Man! I can't believe I messed up on a potential invite to *THE 25K PYRAMID*
Man! I can't believe I messed up on a potential invite to *THE 25K PYRAMID*
- general anxious wringing of hands*
zobar - 11/08/08 10:06
It is not about flossing!
And this is why, when I finally get on The $25,000 Pyramid, neither of you is invited.
- Z
It is not about flossing!
And this is why, when I finally get on The $25,000 Pyramid, neither of you is invited.
- Z
james - 11/08/08 10:00
Cat and Girl is a comic of extraordinary dental hygiene.
Cat and Girl is a comic of extraordinary dental hygiene.
tinypliny - 11/08/08 09:46
Flossing is evil.
Flossing is evil.
Huh, that's interesting. T Boone Pickens was on the Daily Show this week :::link::: making the point that while alternate-fuel autos are great, a much larger impact can be made by converting large trucks and heavy machinery off diesel. He recommended compressed natural gas.
- Z
A little bit OT here, but I got an email a couple weeks ago... MINI is making a 100% electric, zero-emission car. And they're sort of beta-testing it. Sounds like they're going to put a fleet of 500 on the road next year, and see how it goes, and then fine-tune and I guess sell them to the public. It sounds like a pretty cool little car. The catch is that (at least for this testing stage) you have to be in metro NYC or I think LA. I'm not sure how well this link will work since it's all flash-y, but here's some info-
:::link:::
I swore off all American cars after getting anally raped by GM a few years back. Brand new piece of crap car poorly made, GM wouldn't honor the warranty, etc etc. It's 100% imports for me. The funny thing is, a lot of the imports are actually made here now, and a lot of the "American" cars have mostly foreign parts. It really doesn't matter. GM & Ford need to go under, they're in bed with the fuel companies and have been holding back progress for years now.
I want my comment back. *whine* *whine*
(e:libertad): The answer is Satyagraha. :::link:::
(I know, you might call me biased, but it actually has worked more times than guerilla warfare or other crazy coups have.)
haha... The comment that I lost (and you can still see part of it in the "more comments" column) is (e:libertad) + (e:zobar) comments rolled in one. :)
One more point that I made in there and is worth mentioning again: The first solar cell was made in 1883. Do you see ANY American made hybrids or alternative fuel vehicles ANYWHERE on the roads?? Where is this aggressive R&D you speak of?
Alls I'm saying is, it's the workers everyone [says they're] worried about - and I gotta say I don't really trust a middleman with a proven ability to burn $40B in a year with nothing to show for it. There's going to be a lot of people out of jobs, and I think we need to start looking into beefing up unemployment insurance.
People are talking about tying the auto bailout to requiring the companies to develop clean fuel technologies. Look guys: they can't even make payroll. They're not going to be leading the world in anything except blame and excuses.
I don't buy this shit about American fuel innovation either. The Toyota Prius has been available to the general public for eleven years; the Honda Insight was introduced nine years ago. What do we have from GM? E85? You might even be able to find that at a gas station if you live in Iowa. Hybrid SUVs? They were so behind the ball on hybrids that they had to negotiate with Toyota because their independent R&D ended up infringing patents that Toyota had held for years.
- Z
Oh and Tiny what do you propose we do to force our "representatives" to do anything? Are you suggesting we take up arms or something? ;)
So what if they did neither and instead used the money to create a new infrastructure of public transport? The laid off auto workers could be given first opportunity at these jobs and programs for relocation or temporary housing to work in other areas of the country that need it. To me it just seems like the most opportune thing to do.
I don't believe the bailout with work either. It also seems ridiculous to reward the auto industry for such bad business practices.
Thanks for the detailed reply, (e:joshua). You make a good point about the risks of a government being inert during an employment crisis and the real (in)effectiveness of any measures (eg. bailout) that it does take. I think all of us instinctively know that regardless of whatver bailout, the auto industry is coming down.
Thus, this proposed bailout is not going to serve its purpose of helping the auto employees keep their jobs but might instead help the government keep its job.
Either way you look at it, its a selfish irrational move. Bailing out the employees is not a very reasonable thing to do - it reminds me of that pithy saying “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish ; and you have fed him for a lifetime". Bailing out employees or the industry with money now is equivalent to giving them fishes for a day.
(e:libertad) made a suggestion on my blog which sounds like a good alternative to this madness. He said that these workers should be re-employed in alternative employment - rebuilding and expanding our public transport infrastructure and working towards production of alternative fuel powered vehicles.
I think its an excellent suggestion and the government should put aside its selfishness and consider it seriously.
Also, I would like to point out that, though American automakers may have been pursuing hybrid technologies for a few years now, the first solar cell was built back in ~1883. These have been used for powering space shuttles for many decades now. Solar cells are not some Star-Trek atomizing technology, they are very similar to the microchips we use in our laptops and other computerized circuits. When the computer industry can explode into innovation like it has been doing for the past two decades, why couldn't the solar panel research keep up? You might find the answer lies in vested interests. Going back to the fish saying, giving people solar panel powered things, is like giving them fish that feeds them forever. But of course, the industry can't have this because its goal to keep making people buy cars they can't afford and buy oil for those oil-guzzling contraptions.
The most efficient hybrids on the streets are *all* made with foreign R&D. We can either choose to look at the extremely recent efforts of this country's automakers to jump on the hybrid bandwagon as a glorious herald of things to come or look at it for what it really might be - an ostrich taking its head out of the sand and realizing that the industry is going out of business and thus launching this do-gooding late-aggressive scheme.
I would say the the industry's lack of innovation might be one of the reasons it has been failing. Look at (e:jenk)'s comment. I am sure not many Americans look kindly on oil guzzling inefficient monsters.
In fact, how many of you own 100% American cars nowadays? Would you have bought that foreign Honda or Hyundai or whatever, if American cars had been solar powered/hybrids/fuel-efficient? Taking it a step further, would we be criticizing the bailout to the industry so much today, had it been producing nifty little efficient alternative fuel cars - that people actually loved to buy and drive?
Tiny,
It isn't the industry owners who the government would be keeping afloat. The industry "owners" are actually the shareholders, whose stock is semi-officially worthless. The idea is to prop the industry to prevent it from failing and causing 3 million layoffs, which is an incredibly compelling rationale. Forget executive compensation or the perceived morality of the auto industry - those are tangential and are subject to opinion anyway. The auto industry's lack of innovation is not its undoing. Actually, few automakers have pursued hybrid technology more aggressively than American automakers over the past few years.
Businesses succeed and fail... there is no guarantee of perpetual success and comfort. I think auto workers are going to lose their jobs en masse regardless of the bailout, because I don't think the businesses are viable any longer. If it's meant to happen, so be it, but trust me - the government *will* attempt to prop the industry up because doing nothing while millions lose their jobs would be political suicide. I'm so sure the government will not throw that idea away and give the money to the unemployed instead, that I'll promise you I'll vote all liberal in 2010 if I'm wrong.
Well, then when an industry collapses it certainly does not merit the federal government stepping in to keep the *industry* owners afloat either. (Especially when the industry has been suppressing progress and is evil.)
Well, I think the reason why this would never occur is that the United States government is not, and never will be, in the business of subsidizing workers in such an extraordinary manner who lose their jobs, regardless of the circumstances. Losing your job when an industry collapses is not something that merits the federal government stepping in to keep you personally afloat.
I say let 'em close. american cars suck anyway.
;)
YES. GE or other auto bigshots SHOULD NOT receive money they don't deserve. THE EMPLOYEES must get this money.
The auto company owners and executives have enough money to buy personal islands anyway. And honestly, I think they are squarely responsible for suppressing the research and development of alternative fuel vehicles because of their evil links with the oil industry.
If the auto industry gets bailed out like Pelosi and Reid suggest, then REALLY, all those who made this decision should be shot and the money given to the truly in trouble Americans who are in debt, out of jobs and being chucked out of their foreclosed homes.
The government (dems/repubs) both are nasty little money sequestering bastards. Why doesn't all of the American population wake up and realize this??? Can't people FORCE the government to put that 700bn to better uses??
Are they YOUR representatives?? WHY AREN'T THEY SERVING YOU??? Why are they serving the filthy rich executives instead?
It isn't crazy and it is a good idea. I think the reason it won't happen is because if say ford shuts down then everyone there loses there job, then the downword spiral continues and people who can buy cars don't buy american cars and then there is no market place for them. In theory what should happen is the car companies should go out of buisness and then some who is smart and has money buys the plants at low cost and starts a new an better car company.