We live in America in 2008 and yet we have grown men and women acting like the spoiled, ridiculous children that they are.
Now, I'm sure I'm going to read various comments from some of you suggesting that I'm cherry picking, but let's nip that at the bud right here and now. If I led a McCain march down Elmwood, or in SF, or in Boston, or in Chicago, or in Los Angeles, the scene would be identical to what you've just watched. Nowhere in America will you find Republicans shouting down liberals in the middle of the street. Let's forego the pretense of general decency on the side of the left - they threw it away when they spat on their brothers and sisters coming home from Vietnam. Now that sort of idiot is in Congress, and they STILL cannot accept responsibility for their own actions.
Now, I'll give liberals at least some credit - long ago they abandoned the notion that they are the tolerant ones. Nevertheless it is important for people to see these sorts of videos because it sheds light on the base of support for Barack Obama. If you support Barack Obama, you are lining yourselves up in alliance with people like this. There isn't a shred of decency to share between them. I would never vote for a liberal Democrat anyway, but allying myself with lunatics such as these? That pretty much seals the deal. Some people don't know enough to be embarrassed by it.
By watching this video you might think that we're watching an American version of the Catholics marching down Shankill Road. What is next - instead of this:
are we going to see deifications of Obama in mural form along Columbus Avenue, with or without revolutionary regalia? (Think Che/Cuba flags, like the lady at the Obama office you've all seen).
Why do these liberals have no ability to get a grip whatsoever, and why is this style of persona so prevalent among liberals? I doubt they lack intelligence or patriotism (I've always hated that charge - it's unfair in 99.99% of cases) but based on this behavior they aren't doing themselves any favors. This is the style of "thinker" that wants Barack Obama in office? Scary. I think middle America would find this hard to swallow. And liberals refer to McCain rallies as "mob-like?" Haha! Riiiight. These people are openly hostile because it is who they are, straight to their cores. Don't bother justifying it - it is what it is. It is a sad and regrettable state of affairs indeed.
I'd write a rebuttal, but I'm just laughing too hard...
You're a funny man, (e:josh) .
:::link:::
Well, seeing as how McCain's woefully crap campaign team are pushing Obama to victory by attacking liberals and calling him a 'pal' of terrorists I think we can safely assume that the independents and filthy liberals don't agree with Joshua's sentiments and, seeing as how Conservatives are already mobilized to their hilt and it is still not enough, it is not really them that matter this year.
It's funny to me that in my country I am not considered a liberal but your politics is so far right of the median that here I am a fully paid up bed wetter
I personally don't mind the nastiness, this country has been like a bad divorce/custody struggle for the last eight years. It needs to get it's anger out, blame mom and dad, cry, fight and stomp it's feet, regain it's dignity and get on with it's job
roll on november
From My View the video is very biased or maybe it was just your comments about it Josh and here is why.
Based on the information I have it is New York City. Isn't the finger and fuck you the New York City modo it also isn't at all like any of those other cities you mentioned. That New York Attitude is one of the reasons I wouldn't live there.
That isn't a McCain rally by the way. I can tell it isn't because as everyone walks by they are going past booths. I can't tell what is going on at them but the street is closed off and people are walking about. I know that when I'm at something and I see some political dude who is at every festival it upsets me a bit. Yeah I know it is a good way to get your name out there, but come on you can't really care about every event that happens in a city. Maybe I'm wrong and all those booths are for McCAin but somehow I doubt that.
Yes liberals can get mad sometimes but It isn't only them who yell and shout and protest stuff. The way you are writting it you make it sound like it isn't there right. The Klu Klux Klan has just as much right to walk down the street and have blacks and others yell at them as the Klan Had the rights to Yell at MLK marches.
Besides what should someone do who doesn't agree with McCain walk up to one of the rally people and star talking as they are walking. They aren't in the parade and then it looks like they support them. As much as I don't like the people who protest Pride Parades as long as all they do is talk and hold signs they have a right to do that. I think it would be better if people just shut up and didn't yell. But the republicans do it to so don't sit up there and act like it doesn't happen the other way around.
I would say that this post is mean-spirited. It is attacking and generalizing. You also state "If you support Barack Obama, you are lining yourselves up in alliance with people like this. " Are you for real? I'm certainly not impressed with this video either.
This is a logical fallacy you engage in frequently. You would do well to be rid of it. I posted a snarky response because this journal lacks cogent content. But, if people can't behave themselves at a rally with John McCain baby sitting, how are they going to behave on the streets?
Because Fred Phelps is a dick, all Christians are dicks.
Because you find a clip of people not being polite to McCain supporters, all liberals are like this. And certainly, we aren't living in politically heated times.
And what the fuck is up with that video?
"Are intellectuals boo and jeer them as well... just as they have been taught to do"
"Zero tolerance for the opposing viewpoint... yet they want to impose their rules on our lives."
What a grand mischaracterization of intellectuals. What a great stereotyping of New York City.
This sent you over the edge? This enraged you so you were willing to paint liberals with broad strokes?
And again, you engage yourself in a logical fallacy. By supporting Obama we are in league with the worst of his supporters? Because we share a similar value, we ergo support everything about these people. Or calls for respectful discourse in the campaign are obviously hollow as there are those among us who are not respectful. And what of John McCain? Is he immune from his more vile supporters because we magically disengage from faulty thinking?
I'm just so frustrated to hear all of uncivility laid at the door of 'liberals', when really all people and groups have extremists.
And if you're the one who decides where the cut off group is for group membership -- Like: all liberals includes the whackos, all people in my group just include the civil people -- then you can win arguments by default.
That doesn't sit right with me in the slightest. Especially when I have experience from the other point of view of things equally vile directed at me.
Oh, and I'll do my best not to call you a conservative. Please don't call me a liberal.
I am a justice-oriented, green, anti-establishment, radical Jesus-follower.
And you are right. The behavior is to be condemned. It's childish and not helpful.
I didn't mention it because most "discourse" in this country is almost exactly the same. In fact, the tone of the superimposed text, while not a middle finger, is just as inflammatory and irrational. Things like: "FACT: Islamic radicals would be more welcome on the Upper West Side than American Patriots," do nothing to encourage productive conversation. (Really?! Did they bring in some radicals as a control group? Did they conduct a scinetific survey?) Furthermore, if they KNEW they were unwelcome, than why did they go/stay?
One bunch of bullies wanted a fight, another bunch gave them exactly what they wanted.
I wish this was uncommon, but its only the smallest bit worse than what can be seen on Fox, CNN, and MSNBC.
All of them are idiots.
comparing a few new yorkers booing John Mccain and Sarah Palin to northern Ireland is beyond mental.
Furthermore, I was at an Obama office in South Carolina a few months ago where McCain supporters were shouting 'no black in the white house' anytime they thought the police weren't listening...
I hope McCain chokes on election day...not because he is a 'conservative' but because he's fucking creepy.
(e:joshua), not only have I seen the republicans that radicalized, I've lived it. I'll grant you that it is less common, but it's there--especially (ironically, and unfortunately) when religion is involved.
And whatever, "GOP political culture" was, I don't think it is anymore. From where I sit, it looks like principles have gone out the window. (Not 100%, of course, but quite a bit). Anyway, I've listened to right-wing radio. Don't tell me that there aren't crazed radicals.
Reposted my latest comment as a journal.
Conservatives never shout down liberals? You've never seen protestors yelling at a gay pride parade? You've never seen conservative marches on Washington that vilify and call for the destruction of the left? You can't dismiss them as being conservative, because the religious right and the hawks are a core constituency of conservative power.
So, you are wrong. I have personally been accosted on the street in at least 5 occasions by conservatives. In Buffalo, NY, Salt Lake City, UT, and Portland, OR.
What you're doing would be like me condemning all conservatives just because the conservatives who go to the effort to show up at a Palin rally call Obama a terrorist. Just because conservatives attack me in the street.
If I were to judge conservatives by the most outspoken among them, I would be forced to conclude that they are incapable of making an argument that wasn't based on emotions, hated anyone who wasn't just like themselves, and that all conservatives think you're unpatriotic and a terrorist sympathizer or faggot if you disagree with them.
Luckily, I don't judge conservatives by the worse among them.
The right is getting angrier and angrier, now that they're out of power. McCain-Palin rallies demonstrate this. Who do you think is going to be protesting in the streets these next 8 years? It's going to swing as the pendulum of power swings. You're just used to seeing the left out of power, not in it.
I do accuse you of cherry picking and painting with too broad a brush. You can't see any incident without taking it as confirmation about what you already believe and are predisposed to think about groups of people. It drives me crazy.
Before I respond I wanted to throw a little something extra into the pot. This weekend I heard supporting the GOP in Hollywood being referred to as "the new 'gay'." I thought that was strange, although I understand the genesis of such a thought. Most entertainment types in Hollywood that support the GOP say nothing or very little, as if they are closeted. They fear being blacklisted because of their political disposition. When I heard it I thought I'd tuck it away for a future comment and see what others thought of that.
(e:drew) - no it wouldn't, and I've just illustrated that it is a reality on the other side. I'd love to see the day where I'm wrong on that, because I would truly be astounded and curious. I'll explain why. GOP supporters have never radicalized themselves in the same way that the left has. The GOP isn't the party of the loud, annoying protester and never will be. The only political party in America that commonly uses groups to make a point in the fashion you've just seen is the Democratic Party. The GOP would have to behave more like liberals in order to make that scenario a reality. What you're talking about is not ingrained in the Republican political culture.
(e:carolinian) - very astute comment. Thank you - I appreciated your even keeled approach. A signed copy of my upcoming book is in the mail!
I've gotten four people to respond, and not one word to condemn the behavior in the video. Is it because acting like spoiled children is understandable when you agree with their disposition? I knew that most would respond by pointing their fingers at someone else, but really folks. C'mon.
And the next time somebody refers to me as a conservative I'm going to explode. I understand perfectly well that for some people, if you aren't a Kool-Aid drinking liberal than you must be a blood-drinking conservative. I'm neither. I am a libertarian first and foremost, who believes in nearly unlimited personal liberty and freedom from government intrusion, whether it be personal, financial or otherwise. Believing big government is disastrous doesn't make me conservative. The fact that I loathe liberal political ideology doesn't make me conservative. Because I see war as a necessary evil that one would hope is rarely utilized doesn't make me conservative. Trust me, many of my social views don't make me a conservative either. I've flat out been called liberal on many occasions because I'm pro-choice.
If you want to characterize me, consider me first and foremost to be antiliberal in 90% of cases, with the rest of my time preoccupied with thinking of ways to keep government out of my life and liberals out of government. I would vote Democrat if there was one worth my vote. I thought Spitzer was worth it and look where it got me. =/ I like our current governor a great deal because he's a pragmatist.
Ha - well, Trisha, I never have, really. I left the GOP because of it. And yes, I could highlight the defacing of several GOP offices around the country, a few of which were highlighted on Drudge this past week, but it is pointless. I reserve special consideration for the right wing. As far as the nastiness goes, what has bothered me most about the McCain campaign have been the most recent commercials. It is to the point now where if I hear piano music I get instant anxiety, and I'm not the candidate! I don't make excuses for anybody by highlighting the sins of the other party - why are you?
(e:janelle) - you are going to get Christian evangelical nuts at every pro-choice rally in the nation. We're talking about the difference between nut jobs showing up to a pro-choice rally at a particular place and particular time, intent on irritating and pissing off the participants, compared to people getting booed, heckled and flicked off en masse by latent folks in the area hanging out, drinking coffee and walking down the street of a major American city. There is a HUGE difference between the two, although both are despicable actions. What I'm suggesting is that you'll never see a comparable scene with the political affiliations flipped. As an Obama supporter you aren't going to show up in Tulsa at a street fair, march with your buddies while holding up Obama signs and get the nastiness that you've seen in that video from New York.
In my own experiences I've found that people on the far side of a political spectrum, in terms of personality and use of cognitive reasoning skills in terms of thinking about difficult issues, often resemble their counterparts on the other side fare more than they resemble the folks in the middle. Neither really consider issues or shades of gray; everything that goes wrong is either 'obviously' attributable to "the man and multinational corporations" or "irresponsible minorities who don't have Jesus in their lives".
I've also found that the only thing that these people find more offensive than the opposite extreme viewpoint is a moderate viewpoint recognizing the good and bad points of both sides.
It's not a liberal-conservative thing--it's an American thing. Both sides do it. Marching where they did was done to provoke a response, for sure. The fact that they were (probably) from another neighborhood only made it worse.
On the other hand, the conservatives that I know in the Elmwood Village know their neighbors, disagree, yet everyone remains civil. (and you and your twin aren't the only ones).
Were I to travel, with a bunch of EV people in Obama shirts to a Republican stronghold (if we can find one ;) ) a similar thing would happen.
:::link:::
granted, it's canada. but don't paint right wingers as being the thinking dignified morality. politics inflame, period.
I'm pretty sure you can find Republicans yelling at people at Gay Rights parades and abortion clinics. I'm not sure that's much better than what you're describing with liberals.
When I went to a pro-choice rally in Washington, I don't believe it was the liberals yelling vile things at me; it was the conservatives/republicans.
James, that isn't what I suggested. I'm not talking about rallies, I'm talking about, well... you've quoted me so I'm not repeating it. You aren't going to find wanton mob rule in Tulsa with token liberals being shouted down and flicked off.
"Nowhere in America will you find Republicans shouting down liberals in the middle of the street."
Yes, they are all at McCain rallies shouting the same things.