I wish I had written this. When I get permission, I will probably adapt this for the elmwoodjesus.org website.
Drew's Journal
My Podcast Link
03/26/2008 09:32 #43794
A good description of Jesus . . .Category: religion
Is available at this link.
I wish I had written this. When I get permission, I will probably adapt this for the elmwoodjesus.org website.
I wish I had written this. When I get permission, I will probably adapt this for the elmwoodjesus.org website.
03/23/2008 08:48 #43766
Happy Easter!Category: religion
Today is the most fun day of the Christian calendar. Here's how I am celebrating.
Right now: Drinking coffee and making sure everything is ready for worship.
9:20am: Meeting with the people that will join Lafayette Church today, to get them ready. (Six of them! W00t!)
10 am: Worship begins: special music, special flowers, new members join, everybody dresses up, we share communion, and even have a u2 song (plus there will be more people than usual!)
11:30: Coffee with people, Easter egg hunt, and then go home
12pm: start making burritos
1pm: Easter burritos with friends!
03/19/2008 19:47 #43730
My First GiMPI'm learning as I go. I am sure this would have been simple for some, but it took a lot of effort and starting over for me.
But I am getting better.
janelle - 03/19/08 19:55
Woot! Woot!
Woot! Woot!
03/18/2008 14:52 #43719
Ten things I like about Root BeerCategory: 10 things
1. It allows kids to "have a beer."
2. It is uniquely American. Most of the world thinks it disgusting, actually.
3. It kept brewers in business during prohibition.
4. It can be made at home.
5. It is flavored by Sassafras. You've got to love a tree that tastes good!
6. It can be delightfully simple, or bold and complex.
7. Froth.
8. Floats.
9. Cool sweetness on a hot day (coming soon, I hope).
10. The taste, duh!
2. It is uniquely American. Most of the world thinks it disgusting, actually.
3. It kept brewers in business during prohibition.
4. It can be made at home.
5. It is flavored by Sassafras. You've got to love a tree that tastes good!
6. It can be delightfully simple, or bold and complex.
7. Froth.
8. Floats.
9. Cool sweetness on a hot day (coming soon, I hope).
10. The taste, duh!
03/17/2008 15:58 #43705
Black theologyCategory: religion
Is the Rev. Jeremiah Wright racist?
He has been proclaimed to be such.
Today, my hometown Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, I read a column comparing Obama's association with Rev. Wright and Trinity UCC with George Bush choosing to speak at Bob Jones University, when it had some racist positions (interracial dating was illegal, for example).
She also reacted against Wright's teaching of a black Jesus.
She then told us, quite plainly, that Jesus was Jewish.
Which, of course, is true.
But she did not take time to understand what Wright meant by "black Jesus."
Black theology teaches that Jesus is black in a number of ways. For example:
a. Jesus had dark skin. To many white people, this makes you black. To many white supremacists, every non-WASP is black. By their definition, Jesus is black.
b. The "one drop" rule. This is related to the first case. In many Southern states and colonized nation, the children of white and black parents presented a problem. What were these children? According to the "one drop rule," one drop of "black blood" made a person black.
Now, if all of humanity is redeemed in Christ (which orthodox Christianity affirms) then Christ is at least "one drop" black.
c. Finally, as a Galilean Jew, Jesus was politically, socially, and economically disadvantaged. While this does not make him black, ethnically speaking, it does connect him to the black experience in the US. Jesus is black in the way that Bill Clinton was "the first black president," or the way a bunch of Irish soul singers are in "the commitments."
(I couldn't find the video, but here's the quote:
"Jimmy Rabbitte: Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud.
Dean Fay: I'm black and I'm proud. )
With any one of these explanations, it is easy to see that Jesus was, in one way or another, black.
So many columnists, however, don't bother to ask these questions.
Instead, they skip directly to Wright's sermon in which he replied, "God Damn America."
Now I do not share his sentiment, but he has not been the only person to say as much. Robertson and Falwell have also preached that 9/11 was a judgment on America.
Here's a question that ought to make us uncomfortable.
Could God rightly judge America?
Now, I'm not saying that God has done so, but couldn't the enslavement of one people group and the near extinction of another qualify a nation for judgment? Wouldn't that earn it?
And, even if it isn't good to do so, couldn't you understand a member of the group that was enslaved still reacting against the nation that has treated him unjustly? Rev. Wright, I'm sure, has experienced real racism.
Is he called to forgive? Absolutely. But start with yourself before coming down on somebody else. How many of those calling for Wright to forgive America have forgiven America's enemies?
There is a big difference between associating one's self with Bob Jones and with Jeremiah Wright. Yes, both have taken a stand based on race. One however, is associated with power over a race, and another has encouraged blacks to stand up together against that power.
Wright's theology isn't perfect. Nobody's is--we cannot fully understand God, and every theology is incomplete.
But he is not a racist. And he does not deserve to be attacked as he has been recently. He has spent a lifetime thinking about what it means to be black, American, and Christian, and now he is being dismissed in a soundbite. Let's seek to understand where he comes from before we attack him for where he is.
He has been proclaimed to be such.
Today, my hometown Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, I read a column comparing Obama's association with Rev. Wright and Trinity UCC with George Bush choosing to speak at Bob Jones University, when it had some racist positions (interracial dating was illegal, for example).
She also reacted against Wright's teaching of a black Jesus.
She then told us, quite plainly, that Jesus was Jewish.
Which, of course, is true.
But she did not take time to understand what Wright meant by "black Jesus."
Black theology teaches that Jesus is black in a number of ways. For example:
a. Jesus had dark skin. To many white people, this makes you black. To many white supremacists, every non-WASP is black. By their definition, Jesus is black.
b. The "one drop" rule. This is related to the first case. In many Southern states and colonized nation, the children of white and black parents presented a problem. What were these children? According to the "one drop rule," one drop of "black blood" made a person black.
Now, if all of humanity is redeemed in Christ (which orthodox Christianity affirms) then Christ is at least "one drop" black.
c. Finally, as a Galilean Jew, Jesus was politically, socially, and economically disadvantaged. While this does not make him black, ethnically speaking, it does connect him to the black experience in the US. Jesus is black in the way that Bill Clinton was "the first black president," or the way a bunch of Irish soul singers are in "the commitments."
(I couldn't find the video, but here's the quote:
"Jimmy Rabbitte: Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud.
Dean Fay: I'm black and I'm proud. )
With any one of these explanations, it is easy to see that Jesus was, in one way or another, black.
So many columnists, however, don't bother to ask these questions.
Instead, they skip directly to Wright's sermon in which he replied, "God Damn America."
Now I do not share his sentiment, but he has not been the only person to say as much. Robertson and Falwell have also preached that 9/11 was a judgment on America.
Here's a question that ought to make us uncomfortable.
Could God rightly judge America?
Now, I'm not saying that God has done so, but couldn't the enslavement of one people group and the near extinction of another qualify a nation for judgment? Wouldn't that earn it?
And, even if it isn't good to do so, couldn't you understand a member of the group that was enslaved still reacting against the nation that has treated him unjustly? Rev. Wright, I'm sure, has experienced real racism.
Is he called to forgive? Absolutely. But start with yourself before coming down on somebody else. How many of those calling for Wright to forgive America have forgiven America's enemies?
There is a big difference between associating one's self with Bob Jones and with Jeremiah Wright. Yes, both have taken a stand based on race. One however, is associated with power over a race, and another has encouraged blacks to stand up together against that power.
Wright's theology isn't perfect. Nobody's is--we cannot fully understand God, and every theology is incomplete.
But he is not a racist. And he does not deserve to be attacked as he has been recently. He has spent a lifetime thinking about what it means to be black, American, and Christian, and now he is being dismissed in a soundbite. Let's seek to understand where he comes from before we attack him for where he is.
jason - 03/18/08 00:39
I was just thinking that Josh misunderstood what you meant by "earning" the bigotry. It sounds shocking at first until you think of exactly what it means. To me, nobody earns the right to be a bigot. What I got from what you wrote was that someone like Wright had whatever hostility beaten into him (physically? mentally?) ever since he was a kid, due to where our country was at when he was young. Real experience results in real consequences for people. A Dobsonite has absolutely nothing of this kind to go on which would provoke his animosity.
I was just thinking that Josh misunderstood what you meant by "earning" the bigotry. It sounds shocking at first until you think of exactly what it means. To me, nobody earns the right to be a bigot. What I got from what you wrote was that someone like Wright had whatever hostility beaten into him (physically? mentally?) ever since he was a kid, due to where our country was at when he was young. Real experience results in real consequences for people. A Dobsonite has absolutely nothing of this kind to go on which would provoke his animosity.
drew - 03/17/08 23:05
yeah. A person must be held accountable for what they say. Wright didn't violate any tax law, but he certainly did invite criticism.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to make an argument from silence, nor am I an "America last" guy. I am saying that God doesn't have the same "pro-America" bias that many Americans do. We don't get a pass just for being America.
What we do see is that God judges all nations, and America is no different. Obviously, America has done some terrific things, and some horrible things. I won't pretend to be the ultimate judge.
I can understand not trusting humans to speak for God, especially given the examples you cite. I certainly distrust human voices, I just don't rule them out.
yeah. A person must be held accountable for what they say. Wright didn't violate any tax law, but he certainly did invite criticism.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to make an argument from silence, nor am I an "America last" guy. I am saying that God doesn't have the same "pro-America" bias that many Americans do. We don't get a pass just for being America.
What we do see is that God judges all nations, and America is no different. Obviously, America has done some terrific things, and some horrible things. I won't pretend to be the ultimate judge.
I can understand not trusting humans to speak for God, especially given the examples you cite. I certainly distrust human voices, I just don't rule them out.
joshua - 03/17/08 22:55
"Sorry to disappoint you. How ironic is it that not all bigotry is created equal? Still, I think that it is the case."
Mm - thats okay Drew. Nobody is perfect, present company included. I do feel sorry for the fact that it was true though. We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the bigotry issue.
"I cannot speak from experience when it comes to Wright. Could say that I would still love America, even if I felt like it was working against me for most of my life? If I did say that, it would just be an untested guess. How much is a person supposed to tolerate before they get angry?"
That is an incredibly compelling question. For me that doesn't mean that he can't be held to account for saying something so obviously controversial as he did. Even when its taken into context some of it is astonishing and likely was in violation of the tax rules that allow his church to be exempt. However, you can hardly blame him for feeling the way he does. Its a terrible paradox. In the end though, everybody knows that you can't say "god damn America" as a public figure or a preacher - especially one who has been a presidential candidate's spiritual adviser for 20 years nonetheless.
"Nothing in the Bible is suggests that God would see the USA differently than any other nation. And God condemns nations that fail choose injustice over justice."
I agree. I'm not asking this to be cute, but is that supposed to mean that because there is nothing to suggest otherwise that therefore it must be true? After all, the implication here is that America is an entirely evil country. Personally I don't subscribe to the "America last" theory.
"As to whether a person has the right to say, all I can say is this: a person not to assume they should speak for God lightly. On the other hand, the Bible is full of stories of God using people to issue his call to justice. Someday we will know if this is one of those cases."
To that end I'm not sure anybody has the right to speak in God's name but God. People do things in God's name all the time - some of it incredibly cruel. Osama bin Laden thinks he is doing God's work. Evangelicals think that they are enforcing God's word by suggesting systemized bigotry in the form of gay marriage bans. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, abuse of papal power by the Medici family - sheesh there is a ton to work with. If I want the truth, to be perfectly honest, I'm asking God and not another human being.
"Sorry to disappoint you. How ironic is it that not all bigotry is created equal? Still, I think that it is the case."
Mm - thats okay Drew. Nobody is perfect, present company included. I do feel sorry for the fact that it was true though. We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the bigotry issue.
"I cannot speak from experience when it comes to Wright. Could say that I would still love America, even if I felt like it was working against me for most of my life? If I did say that, it would just be an untested guess. How much is a person supposed to tolerate before they get angry?"
That is an incredibly compelling question. For me that doesn't mean that he can't be held to account for saying something so obviously controversial as he did. Even when its taken into context some of it is astonishing and likely was in violation of the tax rules that allow his church to be exempt. However, you can hardly blame him for feeling the way he does. Its a terrible paradox. In the end though, everybody knows that you can't say "god damn America" as a public figure or a preacher - especially one who has been a presidential candidate's spiritual adviser for 20 years nonetheless.
"Nothing in the Bible is suggests that God would see the USA differently than any other nation. And God condemns nations that fail choose injustice over justice."
I agree. I'm not asking this to be cute, but is that supposed to mean that because there is nothing to suggest otherwise that therefore it must be true? After all, the implication here is that America is an entirely evil country. Personally I don't subscribe to the "America last" theory.
"As to whether a person has the right to say, all I can say is this: a person not to assume they should speak for God lightly. On the other hand, the Bible is full of stories of God using people to issue his call to justice. Someday we will know if this is one of those cases."
To that end I'm not sure anybody has the right to speak in God's name but God. People do things in God's name all the time - some of it incredibly cruel. Osama bin Laden thinks he is doing God's work. Evangelicals think that they are enforcing God's word by suggesting systemized bigotry in the form of gay marriage bans. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, abuse of papal power by the Medici family - sheesh there is a ton to work with. If I want the truth, to be perfectly honest, I'm asking God and not another human being.
drew - 03/17/08 22:41
I missed a lot of commenting while I was composing my last comment. Sorry.
Anyway, you weren't too harsh, and I like honest disagreement. I encourage my congregation to think for themselves, challenge everything I say, and challenge themselves, too. I would expect nothing less from estrippers!
Needless to say, if there is a "holy tenet," I think that there shouldn't be one.
I missed a lot of commenting while I was composing my last comment. Sorry.
Anyway, you weren't too harsh, and I like honest disagreement. I encourage my congregation to think for themselves, challenge everything I say, and challenge themselves, too. I would expect nothing less from estrippers!
Needless to say, if there is a "holy tenet," I think that there shouldn't be one.
drew - 03/17/08 22:21
Sorry to disappoint you. How ironic is it that not all bigotry is created equal? Still, I think that it is the case. While I don't think a Jewish person has the right to hate Germans, it certainly makes a lot more sense to me than a white middle class person hating Mexicans.
Are both wrong? yes. Are they equal? No. I have no right to tell the Holocaust survivor to forgive until I can honestly say that I understand their experience. I have never had such experience, so the best I can do is speak for myself and keep my mouth shut otherwise.
(I know--I'm not really keeping my mouth shut here. Journaling gives so many opportunities for hypocrisy!)
Now, is the black experience in America comparable to the Jewish experience in Nazi Germany? Not in many ways. But it is in one important way: it was a level of oppression that I have only experienced from the oppressor's side.
I can criticize Falwell and Robertson because (sadly) we come from a similar place. I have had similar experiences, and have made better choices.
I cannot speak from experience when it comes to Wright. Could say that I would still love America, even if I felt like it was working against me for most of my life? If I did say that, it would just be an untested guess. How much is a person supposed to tolerate before they get angry?
I believe that, in terms of our analysis of interpretations, Black theologians, like other theologians, have both read ancient context into todays, and vis versa. Sometimes, it's hard to tell the difference.
Depending on how we define bigotry, it is difficult to imagine the Bible justifying it. As for the Bible condemning the USA, that is entirely possible. Over and over again, in both the New Testament and Old, communities and nations are judged for the way that they administer justice.
Nothing in the Bible is suggests that God would see the USA differently than any other nation. And God condemns nations that fail choose injustice over justice.
As to whether a person has the right to say, all I can say is this: a person not to assume they should speak for God lightly. On the other hand, the Bible is full of stories of God using people to issue his call to justice. Someday we will know if this is one of those cases.
Sorry to disappoint you. How ironic is it that not all bigotry is created equal? Still, I think that it is the case. While I don't think a Jewish person has the right to hate Germans, it certainly makes a lot more sense to me than a white middle class person hating Mexicans.
Are both wrong? yes. Are they equal? No. I have no right to tell the Holocaust survivor to forgive until I can honestly say that I understand their experience. I have never had such experience, so the best I can do is speak for myself and keep my mouth shut otherwise.
(I know--I'm not really keeping my mouth shut here. Journaling gives so many opportunities for hypocrisy!)
Now, is the black experience in America comparable to the Jewish experience in Nazi Germany? Not in many ways. But it is in one important way: it was a level of oppression that I have only experienced from the oppressor's side.
I can criticize Falwell and Robertson because (sadly) we come from a similar place. I have had similar experiences, and have made better choices.
I cannot speak from experience when it comes to Wright. Could say that I would still love America, even if I felt like it was working against me for most of my life? If I did say that, it would just be an untested guess. How much is a person supposed to tolerate before they get angry?
I believe that, in terms of our analysis of interpretations, Black theologians, like other theologians, have both read ancient context into todays, and vis versa. Sometimes, it's hard to tell the difference.
Depending on how we define bigotry, it is difficult to imagine the Bible justifying it. As for the Bible condemning the USA, that is entirely possible. Over and over again, in both the New Testament and Old, communities and nations are judged for the way that they administer justice.
Nothing in the Bible is suggests that God would see the USA differently than any other nation. And God condemns nations that fail choose injustice over justice.
As to whether a person has the right to say, all I can say is this: a person not to assume they should speak for God lightly. On the other hand, the Bible is full of stories of God using people to issue his call to justice. Someday we will know if this is one of those cases.
joshua - 03/17/08 22:11
(e:drew) I feel like I should say something. My brother thinks I was a little harsh in my last comment. I disagree, of course, but at least I should say that simply because I disagree with you about this (or whatever issue we may disagree on) and am willing to say it doesn't mean that I think your opinions aren't valid... we're all allowed to have opinions and to talk about them with each other.
I think maybe I crossed some holy tenet that doesn't allow you to tell a man of the book that you think he's wrong or even that you're disappointed in something he said! But in any case, I know that you understand that I'm not being personal about it... I think that kind of thing is ridiculous.
(e:drew) I feel like I should say something. My brother thinks I was a little harsh in my last comment. I disagree, of course, but at least I should say that simply because I disagree with you about this (or whatever issue we may disagree on) and am willing to say it doesn't mean that I think your opinions aren't valid... we're all allowed to have opinions and to talk about them with each other.
I think maybe I crossed some holy tenet that doesn't allow you to tell a man of the book that you think he's wrong or even that you're disappointed in something he said! But in any case, I know that you understand that I'm not being personal about it... I think that kind of thing is ridiculous.
joshua - 03/17/08 21:56
(e:james) I think Barack Obama might well pay a political price for seeking spiritual enlightenment from a man willing to say "god damn America" under any circumstances. While I think any reasonable American would agree that black people have gotten the shaft since day one, there isn't a public persona of any color in this country that can get away with saying that kind of thing without some consequences. In other words, the context will not matter because of how devastating the words ultimately were.
You simply cannot say certain things in our country without a major stigma being attached and your patriotism being questioned. One of those things is almost certainly "god damn America," even if it means "god damn America for treating blacks this way for so long."
The lapel pin thing seems silly but its highly symbolic... if you want to run as President of the United States the stupid lapel pin is something you can't NOT wear. Its just how it is, for right or wrong.
(e:james) I think Barack Obama might well pay a political price for seeking spiritual enlightenment from a man willing to say "god damn America" under any circumstances. While I think any reasonable American would agree that black people have gotten the shaft since day one, there isn't a public persona of any color in this country that can get away with saying that kind of thing without some consequences. In other words, the context will not matter because of how devastating the words ultimately were.
You simply cannot say certain things in our country without a major stigma being attached and your patriotism being questioned. One of those things is almost certainly "god damn America," even if it means "god damn America for treating blacks this way for so long."
The lapel pin thing seems silly but its highly symbolic... if you want to run as President of the United States the stupid lapel pin is something you can't NOT wear. Its just how it is, for right or wrong.
james - 03/17/08 21:25
In the context of Wright's whole sermon, I cannot see how what he said is even remotely offensive to anyone but those condemning Obama for not wearing an American flag lapel pin. It is a shame someone did all this work to dig out a sound bite to play it loudly and out of context.
In the context of Wright's whole sermon, I cannot see how what he said is even remotely offensive to anyone but those condemning Obama for not wearing an American flag lapel pin. It is a shame someone did all this work to dig out a sound bite to play it loudly and out of context.
joshua - 03/17/08 20:37
Drew, I think you're simply wrong - I have no idea what else to say. I'm a bit stunned and disappointed in hearing a local preacher say what you have said. At least we agree on a lot of other stuff.
Suggesting that to the extent that he may be a bigot, he has "earned his bigotry" is shocking to me. A bigot is a bigot and cannot be excused because of the conditions that society has applied on them since birth. We are splitting hairs about bigotry and suggesting that Jerry Falwell is the real bigot because he's never lived the life of a homosexual, whereas with Rev. Wright his bigotry is more understandable because he's preaching from the point of view of a black man. Bottom line - that is not acceptable.
"'And what he was doing, considering an ancient context and applying it to life today, is at the heart of every biblical interpreter's task. Every good preacher, as my favorite theolgian, Karl Barth said, preaches, "with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other.'"
But Drew that isn't what is being done! It isn't the ancient context from the Bible that is being applied to lessons from modern life, its modern context being applied to lessons from ancient life. If my preacher behaved this way, I'd find another church - its as simple as that. As it is being applied in this example, this is akin to using the Bible to justify bigotry and condemn the United States of America.
As for whether or not God would condemn the USA in the same sense that Rev. Wright has, I'll answer with this - its not my, yours or Rev. Wrights station in this cosmic life to say. If I want to know what God thinks, I'll just ask him!
Drew, I think you're simply wrong - I have no idea what else to say. I'm a bit stunned and disappointed in hearing a local preacher say what you have said. At least we agree on a lot of other stuff.
Suggesting that to the extent that he may be a bigot, he has "earned his bigotry" is shocking to me. A bigot is a bigot and cannot be excused because of the conditions that society has applied on them since birth. We are splitting hairs about bigotry and suggesting that Jerry Falwell is the real bigot because he's never lived the life of a homosexual, whereas with Rev. Wright his bigotry is more understandable because he's preaching from the point of view of a black man. Bottom line - that is not acceptable.
"'And what he was doing, considering an ancient context and applying it to life today, is at the heart of every biblical interpreter's task. Every good preacher, as my favorite theolgian, Karl Barth said, preaches, "with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other.'"
But Drew that isn't what is being done! It isn't the ancient context from the Bible that is being applied to lessons from modern life, its modern context being applied to lessons from ancient life. If my preacher behaved this way, I'd find another church - its as simple as that. As it is being applied in this example, this is akin to using the Bible to justify bigotry and condemn the United States of America.
As for whether or not God would condemn the USA in the same sense that Rev. Wright has, I'll answer with this - its not my, yours or Rev. Wrights station in this cosmic life to say. If I want to know what God thinks, I'll just ask him!
drew - 03/17/08 19:38
The logic holds up, and it is, in fact, necessary.
Colonialism, and Empire before that, took what was a message of liberation and used it for domination.
It is contrived to say Jesus is black, because it is contrived to label any person as "black" or "white," and have that mean something other than, "darker skin," and "lighter skin."
However, we live in contrived times. Race shouldn't be a reality, but enough people believe it is, and so it is.
Saying that Jesus is black is shorthand, but it is effective shorthand, because of the meaning that we have attached to black. What it really means is that "Jesus identifies with poor, oppressed, marginalized, and criminalized people."
It is a statement meant to confront the racism of American society. At the height of black theology, blacks were dismissing Christianity as "white man's religion," and whites were saying that they could be faithful without being concerned about civil rights. Pointing out the "blackness" of Jesus confronted both of these errors.
And what he was doing, considering an ancient context and applying it to life today, is at the heart of every biblical interpreter's task. Every good preacher, as my favorite theolgian, Karl Barth said, preaches, "with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other."
Anyway, I am not excusing poor behavior, and I certainly would not excuse Rev. Wright simply because he shares my job title.
Other preachers saying something dumb does not excuse him for saying something dumb.
I think the main difference between Wright and Falwell is this. Falwell claimed that America was being judged for it's tolerance of homosexuals, which had little effect on him personally.
Wright, however, has seen and experienced in person the effects of racism in the United States. His proclamation cannot be objective, nor can it pretend to be objective. It is to easy to dismiss his voice as bigoted because it is not objective, but the harder question to ask is, is it true?
Three truths from Jeremiah's theology that I would affirm, even if I would not be "amening" his "God Damn America" message are these:
1. God has demonstrated throughout the Bible that he is on the side of the oppressed.
2. In the United States, our culture has put blacks into this category.
3. God's identification with blacks (and other oppressed people) is part of their liberation.
Is he a bigot? I don't think so. If he is, however, I think he has earned his bigotry.
The logic holds up, and it is, in fact, necessary.
Colonialism, and Empire before that, took what was a message of liberation and used it for domination.
It is contrived to say Jesus is black, because it is contrived to label any person as "black" or "white," and have that mean something other than, "darker skin," and "lighter skin."
However, we live in contrived times. Race shouldn't be a reality, but enough people believe it is, and so it is.
Saying that Jesus is black is shorthand, but it is effective shorthand, because of the meaning that we have attached to black. What it really means is that "Jesus identifies with poor, oppressed, marginalized, and criminalized people."
It is a statement meant to confront the racism of American society. At the height of black theology, blacks were dismissing Christianity as "white man's religion," and whites were saying that they could be faithful without being concerned about civil rights. Pointing out the "blackness" of Jesus confronted both of these errors.
And what he was doing, considering an ancient context and applying it to life today, is at the heart of every biblical interpreter's task. Every good preacher, as my favorite theolgian, Karl Barth said, preaches, "with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other."
Anyway, I am not excusing poor behavior, and I certainly would not excuse Rev. Wright simply because he shares my job title.
Other preachers saying something dumb does not excuse him for saying something dumb.
I think the main difference between Wright and Falwell is this. Falwell claimed that America was being judged for it's tolerance of homosexuals, which had little effect on him personally.
Wright, however, has seen and experienced in person the effects of racism in the United States. His proclamation cannot be objective, nor can it pretend to be objective. It is to easy to dismiss his voice as bigoted because it is not objective, but the harder question to ask is, is it true?
Three truths from Jeremiah's theology that I would affirm, even if I would not be "amening" his "God Damn America" message are these:
1. God has demonstrated throughout the Bible that he is on the side of the oppressed.
2. In the United States, our culture has put blacks into this category.
3. God's identification with blacks (and other oppressed people) is part of their liberation.
Is he a bigot? I don't think so. If he is, however, I think he has earned his bigotry.
joshua - 03/17/08 18:20
(e:drew) - I simply don't agree with applying modern day context to a 2,000-year old environment to come to the conclusion that Jesus was the ancient world's version of black. If I am to take what you are saying at face value, the logic as its been laid out is INCREDIBLY contrived.
Rev. Wright is no different than many controversial African American preachers - the difference is that he is the pastor of a church where Barack Obama attends. I can understand your natural inclination to defend people in your profession when they say incredibly stupid and insensitive things under the guise of religion, but why is it okay to give Rev. Wright a pass while many people furiously condemn Jerry Falwell? One is justified bigotry but the other isn't? One is more acceptable bigotry than the other?
"Is he called to forgive? Absolutely. But start with yourself before coming down on somebody else. How many of those calling for Wright to forgive America have forgiven America's enemies?"
Drew this is a classic example of excusing poor behavior by pointing to poor behavior elsewhere. Stupid actions from one person don't justify or otherwise excuse stupid actions from another.
Rev. Wright is no racist but he is certainly a bigot by anybody's definition. That makes him no different than Jerry Falwell, but people had damn well better apply the same level of scrutiny for everybody if they expect to remain credible. Thats right - people who excuse Rev. Wright but not Jerry Falwell are hypocrites.
(e:drew) - I simply don't agree with applying modern day context to a 2,000-year old environment to come to the conclusion that Jesus was the ancient world's version of black. If I am to take what you are saying at face value, the logic as its been laid out is INCREDIBLY contrived.
Rev. Wright is no different than many controversial African American preachers - the difference is that he is the pastor of a church where Barack Obama attends. I can understand your natural inclination to defend people in your profession when they say incredibly stupid and insensitive things under the guise of religion, but why is it okay to give Rev. Wright a pass while many people furiously condemn Jerry Falwell? One is justified bigotry but the other isn't? One is more acceptable bigotry than the other?
"Is he called to forgive? Absolutely. But start with yourself before coming down on somebody else. How many of those calling for Wright to forgive America have forgiven America's enemies?"
Drew this is a classic example of excusing poor behavior by pointing to poor behavior elsewhere. Stupid actions from one person don't justify or otherwise excuse stupid actions from another.
Rev. Wright is no racist but he is certainly a bigot by anybody's definition. That makes him no different than Jerry Falwell, but people had damn well better apply the same level of scrutiny for everybody if they expect to remain credible. Thats right - people who excuse Rev. Wright but not Jerry Falwell are hypocrites.
jenks - 03/17/08 17:40
shoot i might be totally making this up... but I thought black irish were protestant irish?
shoot i might be totally making this up... but I thought black irish were protestant irish?
metalpeter - 03/17/08 16:57
(e:Jenks) what you say about how the term African American being used wrong is 100% correct. In terms of Egypt from an American Perspective (at least in high school) when we learn about the pryamids and that kind of stuff we are not told that it is part of Africa and things about Africa is a different section. I think that has to do with the fact that people from egypt aren't black and aren't tribes and don't live in the jungle. Yes there are cities in Africa but when I was in school we only learned about south Africa and Aparthied.
(e:Drew): I think there is a good point you make about how people view Jesus as black. Not sure where I have heard it before but it does make sense.
I wanted to ad one other thing that there is a term called "Black Irish". I don't remember what it means but it has something to do with the part of the country people are from. I think that is what caused the black hats with black shamrocks as a fashion statement. I know that is my heritage so I should know what the term means.
(e:Jenks) what you say about how the term African American being used wrong is 100% correct. In terms of Egypt from an American Perspective (at least in high school) when we learn about the pryamids and that kind of stuff we are not told that it is part of Africa and things about Africa is a different section. I think that has to do with the fact that people from egypt aren't black and aren't tribes and don't live in the jungle. Yes there are cities in Africa but when I was in school we only learned about south Africa and Aparthied.
(e:Drew): I think there is a good point you make about how people view Jesus as black. Not sure where I have heard it before but it does make sense.
I wanted to ad one other thing that there is a term called "Black Irish". I don't remember what it means but it has something to do with the part of the country people are from. I think that is what caused the black hats with black shamrocks as a fashion statement. I know that is my heritage so I should know what the term means.
drew - 03/17/08 16:35
yeah Jenks, technically, Theresa Heinz Kerry is an "African American," too.
And btw, I agree, that Wright was dumb. He should have known that those words would come back to get him.
Obama is wise to distance himself from such rhetoric. Immediately after 9/11, people were speaking from emotions, and lots of people said dumb things.
I look forward to Obama's statement. I didn't know one was forthcoming.
yeah Jenks, technically, Theresa Heinz Kerry is an "African American," too.
And btw, I agree, that Wright was dumb. He should have known that those words would come back to get him.
Obama is wise to distance himself from such rhetoric. Immediately after 9/11, people were speaking from emotions, and lots of people said dumb things.
I look forward to Obama's statement. I didn't know one was forthcoming.
jason - 03/17/08 16:25
I haven't read too many opinions to this effect, so I do give you a lot of credit here. I have learned from you today.
If I say something nasty, it is not surprising that people are going to react to it at face value, instead of looking "deeper" into the issue as to why I've said it. That's just the way it works - people are responsible themselves for what they say, whether it is Wright or Falwell or Robertson, you, me, or anyone else.
What was said (you neglected to include these sound bites) was pretty astounding/appalling to people of all stripes, and whose responsibility is it to get it "right", everyone else, or him?? I say him, every time. Even Obama understands this, and distanced himself from the remarks publicly. He's not a fool.
Fair is fair though, and I agree that it shouldn't be made into such a huge deal publicly. Some people think you can be defined to the company you keep, and to an extent I agree, but I doubt Obama would force the USA into some kind of Afrocentric theocracy, anymore than when people said George Bush would turn the USA into an Evangelical orgy.
Obama himself is going to talk about this stuff soon, and probably will address some of these issues directly, as you have here. Personally, I don't really give a damn what Jeremiah Wright says. From an academic standpoint the theology is interesting to me, but that's about it. I don't judge people by their religious affiliation - there is no such thing as a religious litmus test in the United States, officially anyway.
I haven't read too many opinions to this effect, so I do give you a lot of credit here. I have learned from you today.
If I say something nasty, it is not surprising that people are going to react to it at face value, instead of looking "deeper" into the issue as to why I've said it. That's just the way it works - people are responsible themselves for what they say, whether it is Wright or Falwell or Robertson, you, me, or anyone else.
What was said (you neglected to include these sound bites) was pretty astounding/appalling to people of all stripes, and whose responsibility is it to get it "right", everyone else, or him?? I say him, every time. Even Obama understands this, and distanced himself from the remarks publicly. He's not a fool.
Fair is fair though, and I agree that it shouldn't be made into such a huge deal publicly. Some people think you can be defined to the company you keep, and to an extent I agree, but I doubt Obama would force the USA into some kind of Afrocentric theocracy, anymore than when people said George Bush would turn the USA into an Evangelical orgy.
Obama himself is going to talk about this stuff soon, and probably will address some of these issues directly, as you have here. Personally, I don't really give a damn what Jeremiah Wright says. From an academic standpoint the theology is interesting to me, but that's about it. I don't judge people by their religious affiliation - there is no such thing as a religious litmus test in the United States, officially anyway.
jenks - 03/17/08 16:20
kind of OT but you made me think of something... I have a friend at work who is egyptian. And he was saying he never really knows what to put on the 'race' section of applications etc. B/c he is from egypt. egypt is in africa. So he is, technically, "african-american". But due to all our stupid american PC nonsense, "african-american" equals black. (and black equals african american- not jamaican, trinidadian, etc etc). so if he puts african-american, people look at him funny and accuse him of lying or trying to play a race card.
Oy.
kind of OT but you made me think of something... I have a friend at work who is egyptian. And he was saying he never really knows what to put on the 'race' section of applications etc. B/c he is from egypt. egypt is in africa. So he is, technically, "african-american". But due to all our stupid american PC nonsense, "african-american" equals black. (and black equals african american- not jamaican, trinidadian, etc etc). so if he puts african-american, people look at him funny and accuse him of lying or trying to play a race card.
Oy.
Well I'm glad you had a great day. Happy Easter! It was very weird and uncomfortable having to work on Easter and no one celebrating it.
happy easter, drew!
Happy day, good sir
Congrats on the new congregants. All your hard work is doing good for your church.
I was feeling to ethnic this morning for going over my ingredients for traditional easter lasagna so I got a good chuckle over Easter Burritos.
Enjoy.
Easter burrito? Is that like the Festivus Pole?
Happy Easter to you also. Easter is one of those holidays that even though it a Christian holiday it is also about people getting together with other people they know and often has not much to do with the realigous side of things. Everyone celebrates it differently and that is fine.
Don't forget dyeing Easter eggs! I've already got some boiling!