I came across this posting from a guy in facebook in a response to a woman saying "God Bless You" to another:
Science guy wrote:
Hey, Janet. Since you are so smart, here is a little piece of news for you: There is no such thing as God. There is no point to say "God bless you." Ever. God does not exist and if there is any doubt in your mind about this fact, just ask one of the science teachers down the hall in your school. Don't try to act smart when your salutation is a direct contradiction to scientific fact.
A few months ago I was in prayer and I asked God about the science issue, and what I received was this really cool piece. The scriptures show that God was telling man about how the world worked LONG before man figured it out for himself. And what I find to be REALLY amazing is that you and I are here to witness and be the benefactors of ALL scientific action that has taken place THROUGHOUT TIME! Look around you, EVERYTHING we see has come from some kind of scientific process! Science has been a MAJOR source of passion, inspiration, excitement, and help throughout the ages! What kind of God would put us in a world we couldn't understand? How would we ever fix a problem if we couldn't figure out where we went wrong, or if there no such thing as cause and effect to trace our steps. I believe that science guy there would have been one of those people arguing that the world was flat instead of Round, or that he would have been one of those "scientists" that argues that global warming was nothing more than a hoax. Some people's minds are stuck in a box, even when the truth is staring them in the face they refuse to see it any other way. I think the problem with that is that we're moving slower than we should be, and we are devaluing the great gift that science is, and also failing to appreciate the wonderfully awesome God that gave us science. Instead of the argument being about God Vs. Science, i truly believe the emphasis should be on how to use what we have RESPONSIBLY! (ie. the number of car accidents occuring because people don't understand the dangers of text messaging while driving!)
So anyway, here goes: I've done the leg work here so enjoy! If you are not christian, I am not suggesting that you change your whole belief structure on this alone, just inviting you to expand your mind and take into consideration another way of thinking.
- All of the following is taken from from the Bible correspondence course "Know Your Bible" from the tv show on TCT. ( while there are some thing in there I personally don't agree with, I really loved this part!)
Scientific Knowledge
Early in history, many ideas about the world and universe were thought to be true, but were no more than guesses and turned out to be wrong. Many scientific truths, hidden for centuries , have been discovered just in the last few centuries. The small scientific treasures listed below stand as evidence that the Bible is from the mind of God.
1) Astronomy
- Before Columbus and Magellan sailed around the world, the earth was believed to be flat. Yet the Bible said it was round, (Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth../ proverbs 8:27 When He established the heavens , i was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep..) and the world was supported on nothing (Job 26:7 he stretches out the north over the void and hangs the earth upon nothing..) The stars cannot be counted (jeremiah 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be counted and the sands of the sea cannot be measured, so will i multiply the descendants of David) Stars give off sound (Job 38:7- When the morning stars sang together...) and the stars function according to heavenly laws (Job 38:33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? can you establish their rule on earth?) (Jeremiah 31:35- Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and stars for light by night) The universe is not humanly measurable (Jeremiah 31:37 Thus says the Lord, if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all of the descendants of Israel for all that they have done. ) --*which he certainly has not done, not even to This day!
2.) Ocenography
- The seas were created with a common bed (genesis 1:9- And God said, let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.) there are streams or paths in the sea( Psalms 8:8-The bords of the air and the fish of the sea, whatever passes along the paths of the sea.) The ocean floors are coursed by canyons (job 38:16 have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep?) (2Samuel 22:16--then the channels of the sea were seen and the foundations of the earth were laid bare) the ocean contains fresh water springs( genesis 7:11 In the 60th year of Noahs life, in the 2nd month on the 17th day, on that day all the fountains of thegreat deep burst forth and the windows of heaven were opened) (Job 38:16- above)
3.) meteorology
- the water cycle involving evaporation transportation, condensation, and gravitation is suggested (Job 36:27-28 for He draws up the drops of water, He distills His mist in rain which the skies pour down and drop upon man abundantly.) (Eccles. 1:7- all streams run to the sea but the sea is not full. To the place where the streams flow there they will flow again.) Electricity causes rain (Job 38:25-26- Who has a cleft channel for the torrents of rain and a way for the thuinderbolt, to bring rain on a land...) Air has weight (Job 28:25 when He gave to the wind its weight and meted out the waters by measure.) Air rushes in circuits (The wind blows to the south, and goes round to the north, round and round goes the wind, and on its circuits the wind returns.
4) Physics
- neither matter nor energy is presently being created (genesis 2:1- thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all of the host of them.) Instead the Universe is running down or wearing out (Isaiah 51:6 Life up your eyes to the heavens and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens will vanish like smoke and the earth will wear out like a garment...) (Psalms 102:26 The y will persish but thou dost endure, they will all wear out like a garment....) Light takes time to travel to space and thus exists in a pathway (Job 38:19 Where is the way to the dwelling of light and where is the place of darkness?) (Job 38:24 What is the way to the place where light is distributed, or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth...)
5) Biology
- Life does not arise spontaneously ( Acts 17:24-25 the God who made the world and everything in it , being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by men, nor is he served by Human hands, as thought he needed anything, since He Himself gives gives to all men life and breath and everything.) Living things reproduce according to the laws of heredity ( Gen 1:11- And god said let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yeilding seed and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind...) (gen 1:12 the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yeilding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, ...) (gen 1:21- So god created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.) (gen 1: 24- And God said let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds , cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.) There is a basic difference in cell structure of the major classes of living things (1 Corinth. 15:39- For not all flesh is alike, but there is one kind for men, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish)
6.) medicine
- Sanitation laws infer germs (Lev 11:29-36 ** describes animals that are major disease carriers and explains they are unclean to humans.) (Duet 23:12-14 you shall have a place outside of the camp and you shall go out to it, you shall have a stick with your weapons , and when you sit down outside you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement.) Life is in the blood (Lev 17:11 for the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life.) All nations share a common physical Unity ( Acts 17:26 And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods, and the boundaries of their habitation.) The eighth day is ideal for circumcision (gen 17:12 - he that is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations....)
In Conclusion in my own words- God and Science are on the same team! God gave us science so we can understand and work with the world we live in. Everything we see is in order and serves some kind of purpose. Science has proving the Bible to be correct!!! There are some other really cool things to be found in scriptures, sayings that Jesus said would carry on into our generations ( "Like mother like daughter", the whole "red sky at night is sailors delight, red sky in morning sailors take warning- Jesus said that!) Also i believe to the answer to the lost city of Atlantis is told to us in the 26 & 27 chapters in Ezekiel (nas I was reading this all of a sudden I thought to myself, i wonder if the Bible talks about the city of Atlantis, and sure enough the next passage i read talked about the city of Tyre being lost under the sea, and though it be sought for it will never be found... can't help but wonder if it was the Holy Spirit that put that though in my head just as I was reading that passage!) God Bless!!!
This was just meant to be a reference for believers to find scriptures in the bible that refer to science. I love all of your input though! As a Christian, i will not deny there are things in the bible that seem unreal, like the virgin birth, Jonah living inside a whales belly, etc. The thing i think is that either Christians are very ignorant and gullable, or there really is something beyond this physical realm that we cannot see. personally I KNOW that God is real ( and dont ask me how because of you dont believe you wont just by my word, if you do believe you have already experienced God for yourself!) So i must also have faith and believe that the Bible is true. I appreciate science, and i wish everyone would get past the, what came first chicken or egg- about it and see the creator behind it!
Science is a way of understanding. As such, science is a way of understanding god. Of course, there is no empirical evidence for god and that defines the scientific relationship to god.
Religion is a way of understanding. As such, religion is a way of understanding the physical world around us. Of course, I don't find any meaning in what it has to say, preferring science to religion.
Science is objective, and so I value its word. Religion is subjective, and so I value it for what it can do for the individual. Religion has no place in the public on objective matters. Science really has no place in denying a subjective value.
Speaking of subjectivity. I have to disagree that texts are dead and static. Objectively, they are unchanged and Moby Dick will always begin with "Call me Ishmael". But a text is not what is written, it is its interpretation. What once was a tale about being hospitably to desert travelers became the ultimate bible story about homosexuality. Everybody knows that the bible was interpreted differently to either justify or decry slavery. Unlike other texts, the bible enjoys being one of the most dynamic.
That said, ZOMGWTF? This post has its science and its history so wrong I can't even laugh about it.
The two are not meant to address the same issues. Clergy are not to be trusted to talk about science. The earth is not 6k years old and NO biology class shouldn't be used to pursue a religious agenda. Similarly, I don't trust scientists to talk about any kind of religious context. One of the funniest things I've read on Facebook is a comment by someone saying something to the effect of "God doesn't exist because scientists haven't measured him yet" - which is of course to totally miss the point. They're just different, and neither are qualified to comment on the other.
The Bible is used to justify behaviors and viewpoints all the time, many of them contradictory. Today somebody is using the Bible to communicate its scientific merits; tomorrow I'll read about somebody suggesting that Jesus was a communist who never uttered a bad word about compelled charity. The day after that I'll read about how both gay activists and prop. 8 supporters are using the Bible to justify their viewpoints for future action in Cali.
I don't see the Bible as a scientific document whatsoever. It's a spiritual one and if you aren't inclined to accept religion then the Bible will seem kind of absurd. (Although, I'll hold to my dying day that if we had more people like Jesus on this earth we'd be much better off... that's a message almost anybody should be able to understand).
Religion is not perfect and neither is science. The difference between the two is that the fact that science is imperfect is readily and easily demonstrable, whereas the imperfections of religion are only debated in the abstract, in the world of ideas that you can't sit down and write a formula to describe. You can't invent a formula for faith - either you've got it or you don't.
Didn't read the post. Nothing personal, just kinda tired after a long day, and not enough attention for a long post. For me, the Bible and Science are just great for doing the things they are supposed to do, and there is no conflict.
@jim since when do we require documents to admit errors up front? Can we not learn from a film if it doesn't admit that a mic is showing, or there is some continuity problem? Books and films are by nature dead and static, but that doesn't make them worthwhile.
Here is the thing though. I do agree with the bible not Changing thing. But see it really can't since the people who wrote it claim it is the word of god, and that it doesn't change. But see the thing is if you go back to that time and look at what Science was back then there are a lot of things that they had wrong then. If you look at now and jump a head 300-400 there are going to be all kinds of things people figure out that will make us look like retards now. This isn't the Bible Vs. Science it is God Vs. Science and there is a big difference there. I'm not saying that you should believe at all. I'm not trying to change your mind. What I am saying is that Man not God wrote the bible. man isn't perfect and in sometimes he is down right fucking evil and corrupt (Um our mayor, and the Mayor before him was just as bad). The thing is there are many things that God nor Science can really answer yet. The Fact is that you can believe in both. Will there be some contradictions of course and then one must pick what makes the most sense to them. Just so people know being Jewish and Muslim if you talk to history people predates Christianity and it isn't the only Church around but some people (ok everyone on (e:strip) mostly yeah me included) act as if it is the only church. I have a lot of issues with the church my self, I will admit. But just because you believe their is an after life doesn't mean you throw Science out the window and vice versa if you did how would you cook dinner or go on the internet or use math.
This is how science works. :::link:::
In summary: I'll stick to my godless science and cheerfully think it the far superior of the two. Science makes me happy as it fully admits to human origins and insights, and is an endeavor which corrects itself over time.
The Bible I distrust because, although it's clearly prone to error, it admits none of it and is a dead document, learning nothing from each new generation. I don't trust anything supposedly static and immutable, it's too cold.
None of that is really convincing -- and leaves out all the details the Bible gets incredibly wrong.
For example, the ancient Greeks mathematically proved the exact diameter of the round earth via geometry and measurements. Thinking Columbus was the first to discover that the Earth wasn't flat is a common misperception. It was only the dark middle ages that made this some to re-discover.
The list of basic science fallacies in the Bible, beginning with the creation story, the multi-century life spans, the possibility of flooding the entire earth without the proper inventory of water, rainbows not existing before said flood, plants growing before light was created, virgin birth, people turning into salt, people living inside whales for days, changing the color of breed sheep via magical carved rods, witches existing, bats being birds, rabbits with hoofs, 4 legged insects, the Earth not moving, pi being 3, the sun ceasing apparent motion, an Earth-centered universe generally, rusted gold and silver... and lots more. Basically most claims about biology, physics, and nature.
Essentially, I think what the Bible had right on science was either common sense observation (that flesh of different animals is different, prevention of diseases) or purely accidental. The most specific of its claims are the least reliable, and the most 'prescient' claims the most poetic and vague.
Overall I'd give the Bible a failing grade for scientific literacy.
This entire one vs. the other is silly and is used by people who want to control others for there own reasons, well not everyone is like that but some are. The example you left that I will put in is the North Star. Some texts say the 3 Kings (spanish Holiday) and some say 3 Wise Men. The Point being is the followed the North Star, that sounds like Science to me.