I am currently reading an article called "'How Do I Rent a Negro?': Racialized Subjectivity and Digital Performance Art" by Brandi Wilkins Catanese (Theatre Journal)
and she talks about this website:
Rent-A-Negro.Com
I think it is a really fascinating look at race relations today...I should be reading instead of posting, but I thought I would share. Take a look around at all the different tabs, it's worth it!
This is one of their products from the store
Lauren's Journal
My Podcast Link
10/18/2008 12:13 #46176
OMG10/15/2008 13:04 #46126
ExperimentCategory: school
Ok, I'm going to try something out here. This is a response paper (two pages, double spaced) for my class, Afrotopias. It is in response to the book
Punctuation: Art, Politics, and Play by Jennifer DeVere Brody
This is a pretty good example of how I write "academically". I think that this might work because its not really based solely on the book and I think can be understood without having read the book. Let's see if I'm right :)
Oh, a quick note: When I say "queer quotation marks" I am talking about the function of quotation marks to question a straight forward meaning or objectivity of a word and find alternative or multiple meanings within that word/idea.
The connections between Jennifer DeVere Brody's book and other texts and articles we have discussed this semester are many. Brody speaks of the performance of punctuation, of memories that have appeared to have disappeared, of community and art, and of repetitions, silences and improvisation. However, something that we have not (explicitly) covered this semester are notions of citizenship and nation, which Brody addresses via the hyphen.
Last semester I wrote a paper arguing that George W. Bush used the rhetoric of "patriotism" to fabricate a nationalist "American" identity after 9/11 (note queer quotations). Similarly, Brody shows the ways in which post-9/11 America was constructed as a unified, non-hyphenated body of citizens who stripped themselves (and each other) of their allegiances to other nations. But what is perhaps more interesting and important is Brody's use of "The Race for One" and/as "The Race for None" and how this logic was/is located in a linear, seemingly progressive line of temporal evolution. To consider the implications that (most) white Americans have already forgotten(?) their hyphenated European identities while (some/many?) people of color have not, serves to reinforce the notion that white people and whiteness is more "evolved" than black people and blackness. Furthermore, this "lag" in the linear progression of time serves to separate and therefore hinder the ideal (white) America that means to create a "race of one" that ultimately is a "race of none" (read: white).
Brody also argues that the hyphen serves as a "space of friction," (87) a moving performance that "always act(s)" (85). I would like to consider the implications of this notion through Theodore Roosevelt's argument that, "Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance" (Brody, 88). What interests me in Roosevelt's statement is the naturalized/naturalizing connection that Roosevelt makes between one's spirit and soul and one's physical/geographic location. To be sure, Roosevelt not only assumes that love for one land necessarily requires the "forgetting" of another, but also that America/ns have always already insisted/required/forced "outsiders" to remain just that. I am reminded here of the article last class that pointed out that enslaved black women's bodies were used as experiments for "science" because they were simultaneously viewed as different yet similar to white women's bodies. Although America has continuously insisted on the "differences" of people of color, the moment their sameness is viewed as useful, they are condemned for claiming such differences. Also, to argue that Roosevelt, like George W. Bush, cannot conceive of a diasporic identity that reaches across time and space, history and borders of all kinds, is only the tip of the iceberg. This kind of "friction" is, as Brody argues, "impossible,"(85) yet powerful.
To conclude, as Brody argues, it is not enough to argue that the American ideal of unity, or "the race of one," is void of racial distinction in favor of an "American" identity, but rather that this ideal is based on, grounded in, and perpetuated through a notion that whiteness and white America is a "race of none". Far too often, as could/can clearly be seen when speaking of "race" in the upcoming presidential election, as well as the primary, it was clear that speakers meant black. Whiteness continues to be cast as neutral, normal, and even natural and hence, lacking racial classification. Therefore, the American vision of a non-hyphenated, unified "one" is always already the "race of none": whiteness. Interestingly enough, the performance of whiteness might actually show its face here, as those who assimilate to white norms, standards and values are closer (is it ever fully achieved?) to the American ideal than those who maintain (openly) their hyphens, their (physical/spiritual) moving between (artificial/fabricated) borders. Finally, Brody posits the question, "Is this shifting space actually liberatory?" (107). Is the use of the hyphen serving only to reinforce these artificial boundaries and borders that have been erected for the sole purpose of segregation, or should we be moving toward a "unity"(queer) that dissolves these borders and seeks to un-cover/dis-cover the "me" in "you" and vice versa? Are we at a space that allows for this type of radical thinking/acting and what implications would it have on the politics of community and solidarity?
Punctuation: Art, Politics, and Play by Jennifer DeVere Brody
This is a pretty good example of how I write "academically". I think that this might work because its not really based solely on the book and I think can be understood without having read the book. Let's see if I'm right :)
Oh, a quick note: When I say "queer quotation marks" I am talking about the function of quotation marks to question a straight forward meaning or objectivity of a word and find alternative or multiple meanings within that word/idea.
The connections between Jennifer DeVere Brody's book and other texts and articles we have discussed this semester are many. Brody speaks of the performance of punctuation, of memories that have appeared to have disappeared, of community and art, and of repetitions, silences and improvisation. However, something that we have not (explicitly) covered this semester are notions of citizenship and nation, which Brody addresses via the hyphen.
Last semester I wrote a paper arguing that George W. Bush used the rhetoric of "patriotism" to fabricate a nationalist "American" identity after 9/11 (note queer quotations). Similarly, Brody shows the ways in which post-9/11 America was constructed as a unified, non-hyphenated body of citizens who stripped themselves (and each other) of their allegiances to other nations. But what is perhaps more interesting and important is Brody's use of "The Race for One" and/as "The Race for None" and how this logic was/is located in a linear, seemingly progressive line of temporal evolution. To consider the implications that (most) white Americans have already forgotten(?) their hyphenated European identities while (some/many?) people of color have not, serves to reinforce the notion that white people and whiteness is more "evolved" than black people and blackness. Furthermore, this "lag" in the linear progression of time serves to separate and therefore hinder the ideal (white) America that means to create a "race of one" that ultimately is a "race of none" (read: white).
Brody also argues that the hyphen serves as a "space of friction," (87) a moving performance that "always act(s)" (85). I would like to consider the implications of this notion through Theodore Roosevelt's argument that, "Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance" (Brody, 88). What interests me in Roosevelt's statement is the naturalized/naturalizing connection that Roosevelt makes between one's spirit and soul and one's physical/geographic location. To be sure, Roosevelt not only assumes that love for one land necessarily requires the "forgetting" of another, but also that America/ns have always already insisted/required/forced "outsiders" to remain just that. I am reminded here of the article last class that pointed out that enslaved black women's bodies were used as experiments for "science" because they were simultaneously viewed as different yet similar to white women's bodies. Although America has continuously insisted on the "differences" of people of color, the moment their sameness is viewed as useful, they are condemned for claiming such differences. Also, to argue that Roosevelt, like George W. Bush, cannot conceive of a diasporic identity that reaches across time and space, history and borders of all kinds, is only the tip of the iceberg. This kind of "friction" is, as Brody argues, "impossible,"(85) yet powerful.
To conclude, as Brody argues, it is not enough to argue that the American ideal of unity, or "the race of one," is void of racial distinction in favor of an "American" identity, but rather that this ideal is based on, grounded in, and perpetuated through a notion that whiteness and white America is a "race of none". Far too often, as could/can clearly be seen when speaking of "race" in the upcoming presidential election, as well as the primary, it was clear that speakers meant black. Whiteness continues to be cast as neutral, normal, and even natural and hence, lacking racial classification. Therefore, the American vision of a non-hyphenated, unified "one" is always already the "race of none": whiteness. Interestingly enough, the performance of whiteness might actually show its face here, as those who assimilate to white norms, standards and values are closer (is it ever fully achieved?) to the American ideal than those who maintain (openly) their hyphens, their (physical/spiritual) moving between (artificial/fabricated) borders. Finally, Brody posits the question, "Is this shifting space actually liberatory?" (107). Is the use of the hyphen serving only to reinforce these artificial boundaries and borders that have been erected for the sole purpose of segregation, or should we be moving toward a "unity"(queer) that dissolves these borders and seeks to un-cover/dis-cover the "me" in "you" and vice versa? Are we at a space that allows for this type of radical thinking/acting and what implications would it have on the politics of community and solidarity?
tinypliny - 10/15/08 16:43
I find your paper really interesting from not only a cultural perspective but also from a scientific perspective.
Admittedly, I haven't even heard of this author whose works you are dissecting. This cultural concept of evolution -- increasing homogeneity (either forced/unforced) of memories clashes with the scientific perception of what evolution is -- diversity of adaptive structural form or genetics. Another perception -- that black people remember more of their ancestry as compared to white (and thus somehow retain more of their "ancestral identities") also is at loggerheads with what we are finding in genetics -- that self-reported ancestry can widely fluctuate from the "real" genetic ancestry. So the modern cultural concept of the "more evolved" is simply one who espouses equality of races or... more political correctness? :)
Haha... so it would seem that the countries of Europe by coming together (at least) economically as a European Union, has recognized and come to accept an identity that encompasses the diversity of its peoples more than the US has.
This question: "Are we at a space that allows for this type of radical thinking/acting and what implications would it have on the politics of community and solidarity?" throws open a number of doors for argument.
Regardless of the putative beneficial effects of a non-hyphenated future on the unity of a community/nation in text (no African-American, just American), the practical implications on science, especially epidemiology (disease determinants among populations) and drug-design, would not be something I would want to deal with, as a scientist or a doctor. If genetics and by proxy, self-report, helps me predict risk of disease or prognosis of patient populations and stratify my treatment better towards a more personalized and thus, effective medicine, I would much rather prefer that hyphenations existed - at least on record.
Cuturally, getting rid of hyphenations is just a symbolic and administrative move. Can this move erase the hyphenations within the "spirit and the soul" of european/african/hispanic/native/asian Americans? I think the US is not at that level of radical action yet because as you pointed out, the hyphens are still being used generously as a crutch and operative in electoral politics of this country.
BTW, do you read this :::link::: ?
I find your paper really interesting from not only a cultural perspective but also from a scientific perspective.
Admittedly, I haven't even heard of this author whose works you are dissecting. This cultural concept of evolution -- increasing homogeneity (either forced/unforced) of memories clashes with the scientific perception of what evolution is -- diversity of adaptive structural form or genetics. Another perception -- that black people remember more of their ancestry as compared to white (and thus somehow retain more of their "ancestral identities") also is at loggerheads with what we are finding in genetics -- that self-reported ancestry can widely fluctuate from the "real" genetic ancestry. So the modern cultural concept of the "more evolved" is simply one who espouses equality of races or... more political correctness? :)
Haha... so it would seem that the countries of Europe by coming together (at least) economically as a European Union, has recognized and come to accept an identity that encompasses the diversity of its peoples more than the US has.
This question: "Are we at a space that allows for this type of radical thinking/acting and what implications would it have on the politics of community and solidarity?" throws open a number of doors for argument.
Regardless of the putative beneficial effects of a non-hyphenated future on the unity of a community/nation in text (no African-American, just American), the practical implications on science, especially epidemiology (disease determinants among populations) and drug-design, would not be something I would want to deal with, as a scientist or a doctor. If genetics and by proxy, self-report, helps me predict risk of disease or prognosis of patient populations and stratify my treatment better towards a more personalized and thus, effective medicine, I would much rather prefer that hyphenations existed - at least on record.
Cuturally, getting rid of hyphenations is just a symbolic and administrative move. Can this move erase the hyphenations within the "spirit and the soul" of european/african/hispanic/native/asian Americans? I think the US is not at that level of radical action yet because as you pointed out, the hyphens are still being used generously as a crutch and operative in electoral politics of this country.
BTW, do you read this :::link::: ?
10/15/2008 09:49 #46122
On writing and audience(e:paul) made a point in his comment that the more you write the better you know how you sound or come off. and i think this is very true...except that i write ALOT but for a very (not so very?) different audience than those of you on here. Academia is a strange place where people both are and are not "real". I wish sometimes that non- academics could be flies on the wall in some of my classrooms. Sometimes I am overly disgusted with how distanced people are from reality... but at the same time I think that academia is real in its own right. however, I am also very conscious of the fact that the academy is a site of deeply embedded inequalities that still continue to fuck with someone like me, who wants to study something that doesn't quite fit into the norms of science, math, or canonical literature. If I wanted to I could have majored in English...but along with my love of Women's Studies, I think that being a WS or Global Gender Studies student is an act of resistance against the academy. I am a firm believer that knowledge production and legitimation should not and does not come solely out of those looming brick buildings and that having fancy titles after someone's name doesn't automatically mean they are smarter then someone without.
But back to the point.
Writing. Right. I have written since I can remember...always had a journal or a diary (which got me in trouble a few times as a naive teen) and then began writing academically around my senior year of high school and found that I was good at it. But I think that although I am clearly the "same" person writing, the differences between how I write to/for a professor or a class and for myself or for (e:strip) or livejournal or whatever, is not the same. For the most part, academia is rigid. Proper punctuation and citation. Arguments and thesis and closing remarks. It's almost stifling at times. And here...I can use my ellipses like its my job, not capitalize my "I"s and write how it comes out of me.
But I guess the question I am working with here is how much "freedom" there really is here...not in terms of criticism or responses, because those always help, no matter in what form they come, but rather, how much freedom is there in a lack of some form of guidance? The result is me spouting my face off without self-editing, without really thinking about what I'm saying and not really having a goal in mind. So maybe that's it. What's the point? Who I am trying to talk to, to convince or sway or inform? The strange thing is, you all are individuals, many of whom I have met and know and like, but when I'm writing on here you are a clump of abstraction "out there" somewhere. I am used to writing for usually one person, namely a professor who I study extensively to figure out what THEY want out of a research paper and give it to them. I am really good at giving people what they want. So what happens when I have an audience of more than one...especially an audience so diverse (are we?) as this one?
This is where I am lacking in experience. I have yet to write for the "masses" or for a group of people who I don't know or don't know the way they think. The safety of academia has kept me close to my own comfort zone...and I think this is exactly academia's problem. How much can ever really be accomplished when you talk and share and socialize among people who are just like you?
So to end, I will say that I was certainly "fired up" as (e:fellyconnelly) said, when I read some of the comments on my first post and was really hurt by some of the other ones. But it is really a mission of mine to take it all in and to digest it and learn from it and hopefully spit out something better next time.
But back to the point.
Writing. Right. I have written since I can remember...always had a journal or a diary (which got me in trouble a few times as a naive teen) and then began writing academically around my senior year of high school and found that I was good at it. But I think that although I am clearly the "same" person writing, the differences between how I write to/for a professor or a class and for myself or for (e:strip) or livejournal or whatever, is not the same. For the most part, academia is rigid. Proper punctuation and citation. Arguments and thesis and closing remarks. It's almost stifling at times. And here...I can use my ellipses like its my job, not capitalize my "I"s and write how it comes out of me.
But I guess the question I am working with here is how much "freedom" there really is here...not in terms of criticism or responses, because those always help, no matter in what form they come, but rather, how much freedom is there in a lack of some form of guidance? The result is me spouting my face off without self-editing, without really thinking about what I'm saying and not really having a goal in mind. So maybe that's it. What's the point? Who I am trying to talk to, to convince or sway or inform? The strange thing is, you all are individuals, many of whom I have met and know and like, but when I'm writing on here you are a clump of abstraction "out there" somewhere. I am used to writing for usually one person, namely a professor who I study extensively to figure out what THEY want out of a research paper and give it to them. I am really good at giving people what they want. So what happens when I have an audience of more than one...especially an audience so diverse (are we?) as this one?
This is where I am lacking in experience. I have yet to write for the "masses" or for a group of people who I don't know or don't know the way they think. The safety of academia has kept me close to my own comfort zone...and I think this is exactly academia's problem. How much can ever really be accomplished when you talk and share and socialize among people who are just like you?
So to end, I will say that I was certainly "fired up" as (e:fellyconnelly) said, when I read some of the comments on my first post and was really hurt by some of the other ones. But it is really a mission of mine to take it all in and to digest it and learn from it and hopefully spit out something better next time.
metalpeter - 10/16/08 18:07
The thing I want to add is that when you write a blog it is often for different people and so you kinda just have to write what you are thinking or feeling. 1st the blog is yours and is a way of getting things out. 2nd unless people respond you don't really know who reads it and who doesn't so it is hard to know who to aim it at. 3. Sometimes parts of blogs are aimed at people or those people might think it is if the subject matter is about something they wrote about. 4. Sometimes you aim a blog at someone, for example you put up a comment on a post and then decide you should do a eniter post.
The thing I want to add is that when you write a blog it is often for different people and so you kinda just have to write what you are thinking or feeling. 1st the blog is yours and is a way of getting things out. 2nd unless people respond you don't really know who reads it and who doesn't so it is hard to know who to aim it at. 3. Sometimes parts of blogs are aimed at people or those people might think it is if the subject matter is about something they wrote about. 4. Sometimes you aim a blog at someone, for example you put up a comment on a post and then decide you should do a eniter post.
jason - 10/15/08 11:45
Lauren, I've been waiting for something like this from you!
Don't feel bad about your own limitations. You're acknowledging them and trying to reach out to "normal" people, which I have to say is a hell of a lot better than assuming your limited academic scope translates to a broad understanding of everything, or that you don't have to talk to people outside of the bubble.
So give yourself some credit. I'm sensing you are uncomfortable with how your writing comes off, but don't worry about it, really. I'm not an expert but I assume writing for a different audience is a different skill to learn altogether. I couldn't communicate effectively with the academy because my lexicon is wayyy too blue collar.
The only thing I could really say is that your mind is obviously buzzzzzzz going and going all the time, which isn't the worst affliction in the world. Even if I disagree with it, I usually enjoy the journal, no matter what language it is written in.
Lauren, I've been waiting for something like this from you!
Don't feel bad about your own limitations. You're acknowledging them and trying to reach out to "normal" people, which I have to say is a hell of a lot better than assuming your limited academic scope translates to a broad understanding of everything, or that you don't have to talk to people outside of the bubble.
So give yourself some credit. I'm sensing you are uncomfortable with how your writing comes off, but don't worry about it, really. I'm not an expert but I assume writing for a different audience is a different skill to learn altogether. I couldn't communicate effectively with the academy because my lexicon is wayyy too blue collar.
The only thing I could really say is that your mind is obviously buzzzzzzz going and going all the time, which isn't the worst affliction in the world. Even if I disagree with it, I usually enjoy the journal, no matter what language it is written in.
tinypliny - 10/15/08 10:55
Gaah. "interaction in the two worlds*
Gaah. "interaction in the two worlds*
tinypliny - 10/15/08 10:47
"How much can ever really be accomplished when you talk and share and socialize among people who are just like you?"
A lot and nothing at all, at the same time.
I think talking to people just like you is a field of dreams where you scope about for saplings of creative ideas IN your own field, new ways to look at similar problems, take someone else's approach and modify your own. But talking to people not in your situation and outside of the academic world is what grounds your work in relevance to the rest of the world. It's a barometer of the interest and solutions your work and your field is creating for the rest of us. The ability to couple the two worlds is an enviable skill. To date, I have just met ONE person who does this fluently and without glitches in one continuum. I am not sure I will ever get there. I am too much of an academic snob/geek - say what you will. But the interaction is two worlds is what keeps me going in each, almost reciprocally.
On a tangential note, I firmly believe that if influences in either of these two worlds keep you from achieving what you set out to do, its time to DITCH those influences. Choosing your influences wisely is the way to go and grow. :::link::: As Hamming says: “When you talk to other people, you want to get rid of those sound absorbers who are nice people but merely say ‘Oh yes,' and to find those who will stimulate you right back.â€
Nice people are not an answer, they were never an answer. Disinterest anywhere is a sign of decay in thoughts, and you want to get out of that situation as fast as you can.
"How much can ever really be accomplished when you talk and share and socialize among people who are just like you?"
A lot and nothing at all, at the same time.
I think talking to people just like you is a field of dreams where you scope about for saplings of creative ideas IN your own field, new ways to look at similar problems, take someone else's approach and modify your own. But talking to people not in your situation and outside of the academic world is what grounds your work in relevance to the rest of the world. It's a barometer of the interest and solutions your work and your field is creating for the rest of us. The ability to couple the two worlds is an enviable skill. To date, I have just met ONE person who does this fluently and without glitches in one continuum. I am not sure I will ever get there. I am too much of an academic snob/geek - say what you will. But the interaction is two worlds is what keeps me going in each, almost reciprocally.
On a tangential note, I firmly believe that if influences in either of these two worlds keep you from achieving what you set out to do, its time to DITCH those influences. Choosing your influences wisely is the way to go and grow. :::link::: As Hamming says: “When you talk to other people, you want to get rid of those sound absorbers who are nice people but merely say ‘Oh yes,' and to find those who will stimulate you right back.â€
Nice people are not an answer, they were never an answer. Disinterest anywhere is a sign of decay in thoughts, and you want to get out of that situation as fast as you can.
10/14/2008 10:25 #46105
MehLast night after reading my post and responses (e:felly) told me that i came off sounding condescending and...bitchy. really, that is the farthest from my intent..and i had it all up in my head that i wasn't "that" way, but apparently that's not the case.
i do however think that some of my points are being misread. Like I said...I was not talking about individuals and was certainly not attacking anyone, or rather, that was not my intention...Remember, I go to school all day and hear all kinds of shit. So when I write something it is the culmination of a day or a week or a book or whatever. I do however get that I used examples from people's journals on here... but that was for effect rather than being the point of the argument. I apologize for singling people out.
I am not saying that I am the almighty or that I have all the answers either. If I could I would take all the periods out to assure you that my words are not end points, or "final answers" but ideas in progress... And for the record, I don't consider myself a liberal. I think liberalism is a bunch of bs just as much as "democracy" is in this country. but i will be out there voting just like i hope the rest of you will.
and (e:paul), I think that if you read my post you would see that we were on the same page. I said, "Perhaps what they should say is that they are surprised that someone said it IN PUBLIC." Again, just because I used you as an example does not mean that I was attacking you or talking to or about you. Note, I said "who the hell do WE think we are". Not you, them, they... we.
Maybe I need to step back a minute because I really need to make clear that this is not about one on one nonsense. The entire point of my post was to say that our SOCIETY/culture/system allows for and perpetuates this type of thing, not that individual human beings are at fault for the sake of pointing fingers. I don't think that bickering or in fighting gets anyone anywhere.
Honestly, I hate the internet...hate it because I can't' ever properly express emotion via emoticons and bold letters. The sound of my "voice" is read however the reader wants to "hear" it so you can't see that I'm not standing up on a soapbox with a megaphone screaming in your face, but rather, I am dealing with my own shit, working through things and trying to understand and maybe trying to share my ideas with other people. Share, not shove down your throat.
i do however think that some of my points are being misread. Like I said...I was not talking about individuals and was certainly not attacking anyone, or rather, that was not my intention...Remember, I go to school all day and hear all kinds of shit. So when I write something it is the culmination of a day or a week or a book or whatever. I do however get that I used examples from people's journals on here... but that was for effect rather than being the point of the argument. I apologize for singling people out.
I am not saying that I am the almighty or that I have all the answers either. If I could I would take all the periods out to assure you that my words are not end points, or "final answers" but ideas in progress... And for the record, I don't consider myself a liberal. I think liberalism is a bunch of bs just as much as "democracy" is in this country. but i will be out there voting just like i hope the rest of you will.
and (e:paul), I think that if you read my post you would see that we were on the same page. I said, "Perhaps what they should say is that they are surprised that someone said it IN PUBLIC." Again, just because I used you as an example does not mean that I was attacking you or talking to or about you. Note, I said "who the hell do WE think we are". Not you, them, they... we.
Maybe I need to step back a minute because I really need to make clear that this is not about one on one nonsense. The entire point of my post was to say that our SOCIETY/culture/system allows for and perpetuates this type of thing, not that individual human beings are at fault for the sake of pointing fingers. I don't think that bickering or in fighting gets anyone anywhere.
Honestly, I hate the internet...hate it because I can't' ever properly express emotion via emoticons and bold letters. The sound of my "voice" is read however the reader wants to "hear" it so you can't see that I'm not standing up on a soapbox with a megaphone screaming in your face, but rather, I am dealing with my own shit, working through things and trying to understand and maybe trying to share my ideas with other people. Share, not shove down your throat.
metalpeter - 10/14/08 19:17
I will admit that when I read it, it didn't sound condescending or bitchy to me. I also want to add that it did seem to be written about certain people as opposed to the system. I think that once that was clarified that made things better. Yes writing in voice is tough. Once someone knows you better and knows how you talk they can kinda get a sense of what you mean more. If you are around someone enough when you read there blog you will hear it in their actual voice, that happened to me for a couple months with someones blog, it was interesting. I used to have favorite blogs and I really don't anymore but yours are all ways interesting or at least they are a lot of the time so keep it up, and keep things interesting.
I will admit that when I read it, it didn't sound condescending or bitchy to me. I also want to add that it did seem to be written about certain people as opposed to the system. I think that once that was clarified that made things better. Yes writing in voice is tough. Once someone knows you better and knows how you talk they can kinda get a sense of what you mean more. If you are around someone enough when you read there blog you will hear it in their actual voice, that happened to me for a couple months with someones blog, it was interesting. I used to have favorite blogs and I really don't anymore but yours are all ways interesting or at least they are a lot of the time so keep it up, and keep things interesting.
theecarey - 10/14/08 15:54
Our true 'voice' is a challenge, as you said, it is the readers interpretation (and we interpret based on our experiences etc). If things are misinterpreted then we have the chance/opportunity to re explain, ask questions, open a dialogue. Given what you have written in the past, I think if you were targeting anyone you would have said their names. If you had a specific issue with someone you would have named them specifically. I get that you were taking in and processing peoples thoughts (specific and in general) but that your rant output wasn't an attack- more of a springboard. For what its worth, in this case, I simply 'get it'.
Keep writing!
Our true 'voice' is a challenge, as you said, it is the readers interpretation (and we interpret based on our experiences etc). If things are misinterpreted then we have the chance/opportunity to re explain, ask questions, open a dialogue. Given what you have written in the past, I think if you were targeting anyone you would have said their names. If you had a specific issue with someone you would have named them specifically. I get that you were taking in and processing peoples thoughts (specific and in general) but that your rant output wasn't an attack- more of a springboard. For what its worth, in this case, I simply 'get it'.
Keep writing!
paul - 10/14/08 10:57
It is very difficult to give a tone to writing on the internet which does lead to misunderstanding. Its probably good practive for writing books though ;) I do not think you should stop writing about your feelings on the issues, but rather you should just write about them more. The more you write the better you will get at judging how your writing comes across. Sadly, even after 3000+ journals I am still not that good at it.
To me it was definately this paragraph. If you had continued with the we perspective it would have read totally different:
"I am so sick of good intending white people talking about how 'surprised' they were when they overheard this or that explicitly racist or sexist or homophobic remark. Perhaps what they should say is that they are surprised that someone said it IN PUBLIC."
By using they instead of we in this case, it puts your in the category along with the good intentioned white people, instead of putting you somewhere else, which lead me to perceive you thought you were judging from outside the scenario.
It is very difficult to give a tone to writing on the internet which does lead to misunderstanding. Its probably good practive for writing books though ;) I do not think you should stop writing about your feelings on the issues, but rather you should just write about them more. The more you write the better you will get at judging how your writing comes across. Sadly, even after 3000+ journals I am still not that good at it.
To me it was definately this paragraph. If you had continued with the we perspective it would have read totally different:
"I am so sick of good intending white people talking about how 'surprised' they were when they overheard this or that explicitly racist or sexist or homophobic remark. Perhaps what they should say is that they are surprised that someone said it IN PUBLIC."
By using they instead of we in this case, it puts your in the category along with the good intentioned white people, instead of putting you somewhere else, which lead me to perceive you thought you were judging from outside the scenario.
james - 10/14/08 10:48
well, we will just have to settle this like civilized people in a jello wrestling match at the halloween party.
well, we will just have to settle this like civilized people in a jello wrestling match at the halloween party.
10/13/2008 18:12 #46098
Nothing's ShockingCategory: rant
I am really not trying to be
scratch that. I apologize too much. Whatevs.
I am NOT surprised that there are racist gay men out there. Or racist white lesbians for that matter. I am NOT surprised that the white power movement is alive in well all over this country. I am not surprised that there are murders every day of queer and trans people in this country and across the globe. I am not surprised that Obama's name was "mis"spelled as Osama. Is it possible to vote for Obama and still be racist? Hell yes. Is it possible to "love" Ellen and still be homophobic? Hell yes. Give me a break.
Who the hell do we think we are?? The 60's was not that long ago my friends. The truth is, people ASSUME that racism and sexism don't exist anymore because PCism has pushed people underground, which is perhaps even more debilitating toward whatever it is that we think we've achieved. I am so sick of good intending white people talking about how "surprised" they were when they overheard this or that explicitly racist or sexist or homophobic remark. Perhaps what they should say is that they are surprised that someone said it IN PUBLIC. I think that we have some skewed and warped perception of ourselves as a progressive, politically correct, modern "civilized" society that has somehow magically overcome this bullshit that has been entrenched for thousands and thousands of years. What we really need to grasp is that racism and sexism and homophobia and ethnocentrism make up the VERY CORE of this society and this globalized world. Until there is a fucking revolution, this things will continue to live and breath and grow and consume. Maybe, just maybe if people would stop being so godam surprised all the time, we could get somewhere.
scratch that. I apologize too much. Whatevs.
I am NOT surprised that there are racist gay men out there. Or racist white lesbians for that matter. I am NOT surprised that the white power movement is alive in well all over this country. I am not surprised that there are murders every day of queer and trans people in this country and across the globe. I am not surprised that Obama's name was "mis"spelled as Osama. Is it possible to vote for Obama and still be racist? Hell yes. Is it possible to "love" Ellen and still be homophobic? Hell yes. Give me a break.
Who the hell do we think we are?? The 60's was not that long ago my friends. The truth is, people ASSUME that racism and sexism don't exist anymore because PCism has pushed people underground, which is perhaps even more debilitating toward whatever it is that we think we've achieved. I am so sick of good intending white people talking about how "surprised" they were when they overheard this or that explicitly racist or sexist or homophobic remark. Perhaps what they should say is that they are surprised that someone said it IN PUBLIC. I think that we have some skewed and warped perception of ourselves as a progressive, politically correct, modern "civilized" society that has somehow magically overcome this bullshit that has been entrenched for thousands and thousands of years. What we really need to grasp is that racism and sexism and homophobia and ethnocentrism make up the VERY CORE of this society and this globalized world. Until there is a fucking revolution, this things will continue to live and breath and grow and consume. Maybe, just maybe if people would stop being so godam surprised all the time, we could get somewhere.
matthew - 10/13/08 21:34
(e:lauren), I think you totally missed the point of the journals you refer to. You have made rash judments on people without being properly informed about them or the issues they talk about. It's kinda offensive.
(e:lauren), I think you totally missed the point of the journals you refer to. You have made rash judments on people without being properly informed about them or the issues they talk about. It's kinda offensive.
paul - 10/13/08 21:33
"I would say maybe particularly toward 'liberals' who think they are so great."
Wait isn't that you?
I, like (e:james), also have innate racist feelings that I wrestle with, spare me I don't need your congratulations for admitting it. Is there anyone of any race that doesn't? I think it is a fear/misunderstanding of the unknown.
Do you think, that I think that life is just a united colors of Benneton ad because of my "liberal" education?
In reference to my journal (e:paul,46096) I was not at all shocked that the man was racist, but rather the way he said "If I don't vote for McCain, the niggers and spics will rule the street" in a public, generally progressive setting with no hint of apprehention or shame about it. It is totally shocking to me especially considering he was saying it to a total stranger, in an environment that is typically progressive and accepting.
While I don't think Political Correctness is an answer to the problem or that it will make people really change their opinion about their racism, sexism or homophobia, I do think being offensively racist in a public setting, sets the ground for the next logical step - hate action.
Think about it, as soon as people are comfortable saying racist, sexist things in public to strangers, there is really no reason to hold back. Moreover, they might actually garner support of other people who are more mildly racist/sexist/homophobic and would not act alone but are susceptible to group mentality and join them to commit actual crimes. Ironically, it was in that parking lot behind underground that I experienced this best when a gang of porto ricans decided to try and kill us for being gay a couple years back. I would have been much happier if they drove by and thought, damn I hate faggots and want to kill them but feel uncomfortable saying something in public, without blocking the street, feeling comfortable enough about the scenario to scream we are going to kill you faggots in public, taking out knives and then trying to actually kill us.
"I would say maybe particularly toward 'liberals' who think they are so great."
Wait isn't that you?
I, like (e:james), also have innate racist feelings that I wrestle with, spare me I don't need your congratulations for admitting it. Is there anyone of any race that doesn't? I think it is a fear/misunderstanding of the unknown.
Do you think, that I think that life is just a united colors of Benneton ad because of my "liberal" education?
In reference to my journal (e:paul,46096) I was not at all shocked that the man was racist, but rather the way he said "If I don't vote for McCain, the niggers and spics will rule the street" in a public, generally progressive setting with no hint of apprehention or shame about it. It is totally shocking to me especially considering he was saying it to a total stranger, in an environment that is typically progressive and accepting.
While I don't think Political Correctness is an answer to the problem or that it will make people really change their opinion about their racism, sexism or homophobia, I do think being offensively racist in a public setting, sets the ground for the next logical step - hate action.
Think about it, as soon as people are comfortable saying racist, sexist things in public to strangers, there is really no reason to hold back. Moreover, they might actually garner support of other people who are more mildly racist/sexist/homophobic and would not act alone but are susceptible to group mentality and join them to commit actual crimes. Ironically, it was in that parking lot behind underground that I experienced this best when a gang of porto ricans decided to try and kill us for being gay a couple years back. I would have been much happier if they drove by and thought, damn I hate faggots and want to kill them but feel uncomfortable saying something in public, without blocking the street, feeling comfortable enough about the scenario to scream we are going to kill you faggots in public, taking out knives and then trying to actually kill us.
drew - 10/13/08 21:28
yeah lauren--it's not a direct line from your concept to that of Total Depravitiy, but they are conencted.
Total Depravity does not mean that we are incapable of change, just that we are incapapable of doing it solely on our own. If you think about it, it makes sense. We need feedback, instruction or a model--even if we have to get it from a book.
Society has changed, but people have not (not too much, anyways) Even though there is less racism written into law, and racism is less accepted in polite company, people are still selfish and prone to scapegoating people that are different than them.
If racism ever goes away (it could--since race is an invented concept, it could also be discredited and forgotten), the problems associated with racism (favoritism, bigotry, scapegoating, hate) will remain. In this way, racism, though horrible, isn't really the core problem. The core problem is human behavior.
yeah lauren--it's not a direct line from your concept to that of Total Depravitiy, but they are conencted.
Total Depravity does not mean that we are incapable of change, just that we are incapapable of doing it solely on our own. If you think about it, it makes sense. We need feedback, instruction or a model--even if we have to get it from a book.
Society has changed, but people have not (not too much, anyways) Even though there is less racism written into law, and racism is less accepted in polite company, people are still selfish and prone to scapegoating people that are different than them.
If racism ever goes away (it could--since race is an invented concept, it could also be discredited and forgotten), the problems associated with racism (favoritism, bigotry, scapegoating, hate) will remain. In this way, racism, though horrible, isn't really the core problem. The core problem is human behavior.
metalpeter - 10/13/08 20:42
I'm sorry I just have to ad one more thing. I try not to be racist and compared to a lot of people one could say I'm not racist. But do to things that Happened in my past I have been made that way some. I do get that most blacks are good and that it is the small amount of people who are "Bad" but I also get that the game is rigged and that is a factor. I have read about some one in the paper and thought I knew someone with that name in High School who lived over that way I wonder if it was him. Also sorry if I misunderstood that you where more talking about the system then people, I took it as people and not the system.
But that brings up a good point. I think that the reason we have straving kids in Africa is because the people are black. If They where white I think more people would donate money and more American Companies and politicans would send help. But since they are black they are thought of as Savages and not the same as whites, or at least not as important. Even if the USA helped more there would still be problems in Africa. Anther sign of our racism is that Most people speak of Europe by country but all the countries in Africa are Called Africa. Ok that is the end of my rant I can't type anymore.
I'm sorry I just have to ad one more thing. I try not to be racist and compared to a lot of people one could say I'm not racist. But do to things that Happened in my past I have been made that way some. I do get that most blacks are good and that it is the small amount of people who are "Bad" but I also get that the game is rigged and that is a factor. I have read about some one in the paper and thought I knew someone with that name in High School who lived over that way I wonder if it was him. Also sorry if I misunderstood that you where more talking about the system then people, I took it as people and not the system.
But that brings up a good point. I think that the reason we have straving kids in Africa is because the people are black. If They where white I think more people would donate money and more American Companies and politicans would send help. But since they are black they are thought of as Savages and not the same as whites, or at least not as important. Even if the USA helped more there would still be problems in Africa. Anther sign of our racism is that Most people speak of Europe by country but all the countries in Africa are Called Africa. Ok that is the end of my rant I can't type anymore.
lauren - 10/13/08 20:15
(e:matthew), I am talking about pretty much everybody. I admit, I wrote this after first reading (e:joshua)'s post and then (e:jim)'s response and then (e:paul)'s, but I didn't write especially about or toward them. I think this is more of an overall generalization and I would say maybe particularly toward "liberals" who think they are so great. I would say that usually my arguments are made about the SYSTEM rather than the individual. Although individuals are always already creating and perpetuating the system, and I don't want to argue that the system somehow exists outside of our ability to change, but rather that the system shapes individuals and hence, we are all products of it.
(e:drew)...hmm...this total depravity thing is interesting, but I'm not quite sure that that's what I'm saying. (although sure this wiki article doesn't say it all :)) My point is not to say that we are incapable of change or transformation, but rather that we think we have ALREADY changed when we have not...or rather, we have changed in way that allows us to think that we have.
(e:james)...thank you. It's so hard for progressive people to admit that they benefit from racism, let alone that they are racist. As if some how the magic of liberal education has cleansed them of the "past" and present realities of white privelege. I mean, when we talk about race, we are almost always talking about blackness just as when we talk about gender we are almost always talking about women. I could go on...but I think you got it :)
(e:matthew), I am talking about pretty much everybody. I admit, I wrote this after first reading (e:joshua)'s post and then (e:jim)'s response and then (e:paul)'s, but I didn't write especially about or toward them. I think this is more of an overall generalization and I would say maybe particularly toward "liberals" who think they are so great. I would say that usually my arguments are made about the SYSTEM rather than the individual. Although individuals are always already creating and perpetuating the system, and I don't want to argue that the system somehow exists outside of our ability to change, but rather that the system shapes individuals and hence, we are all products of it.
(e:drew)...hmm...this total depravity thing is interesting, but I'm not quite sure that that's what I'm saying. (although sure this wiki article doesn't say it all :)) My point is not to say that we are incapable of change or transformation, but rather that we think we have ALREADY changed when we have not...or rather, we have changed in way that allows us to think that we have.
(e:james)...thank you. It's so hard for progressive people to admit that they benefit from racism, let alone that they are racist. As if some how the magic of liberal education has cleansed them of the "past" and present realities of white privelege. I mean, when we talk about race, we are almost always talking about blackness just as when we talk about gender we are almost always talking about women. I could go on...but I think you got it :)
metalpeter - 10/13/08 20:12
I completely agree with your first paragraph and you make a lot of great points. I think that being PC (not the computer) has made things worse. I think that it is important to know that there is a difference between good and bad sterotypes also. When I was a kid the only time I saw relatives was at get to gathers and there was all ways beer so I thought everyone who is Irish was a drunk or had a problem, that isn't true and it is ok for me to say that. But some one else saying that out loud is a problem and if it is at an Irish Bar and really big problem. If someone black talks about the problems of his family and his hood and what they want to do to change it (maybe a preacher or something) that might be looked at as black power and if I agree and go on a march that would be ok maybe. But for me to have those same views and express them, than I'm a racist, if I say it in a negative light or if I think that just because someone is black they are from the Ghetto. Lets flip this most of the sterotypes I have heard about asains were postive like good in school, over achivers, and things like good in math. But if I ask some dude in school and ask if he can teach me self deffense (yes they all know kung fu) dude is going to be pissed or he might be if I ask him for math help and none of the white boys. It is a very fine line from having information about people or a culture and sterotyping.
Ok back to my point about being PC. Every term for someone who is black doesn't really fit or is used wrong in my opinion. The reason why being PC is bad is because it gives people a way of saying what they would say with out sounding bad. For example when Blacks and Hispanics moved onto the westside lots of Italians and other whites didn't like that and so they moved. But instead of saying Nigg... and Spics moved in they say the hood got bad, you mean the Mafia hits were not bad (even if you never saw or heard them). See now they have a way to say something racist in a non racist way. Now people think Nigg... and mean it but they say African American or Homosexual instead of Fag or what ever. The atitude hasn't changed just the wording. Gerorge Carlin had lots of bits about this, in other avenues. Like how no one says he died it is "He Is gone" or "Pasted Away".
I think that there is still lots of hate in this country it is just that the words we use now are better at hiddig it. Because of that people since it isn't in the open pull the act of I'm so offened.
I completely agree with your first paragraph and you make a lot of great points. I think that being PC (not the computer) has made things worse. I think that it is important to know that there is a difference between good and bad sterotypes also. When I was a kid the only time I saw relatives was at get to gathers and there was all ways beer so I thought everyone who is Irish was a drunk or had a problem, that isn't true and it is ok for me to say that. But some one else saying that out loud is a problem and if it is at an Irish Bar and really big problem. If someone black talks about the problems of his family and his hood and what they want to do to change it (maybe a preacher or something) that might be looked at as black power and if I agree and go on a march that would be ok maybe. But for me to have those same views and express them, than I'm a racist, if I say it in a negative light or if I think that just because someone is black they are from the Ghetto. Lets flip this most of the sterotypes I have heard about asains were postive like good in school, over achivers, and things like good in math. But if I ask some dude in school and ask if he can teach me self deffense (yes they all know kung fu) dude is going to be pissed or he might be if I ask him for math help and none of the white boys. It is a very fine line from having information about people or a culture and sterotyping.
Ok back to my point about being PC. Every term for someone who is black doesn't really fit or is used wrong in my opinion. The reason why being PC is bad is because it gives people a way of saying what they would say with out sounding bad. For example when Blacks and Hispanics moved onto the westside lots of Italians and other whites didn't like that and so they moved. But instead of saying Nigg... and Spics moved in they say the hood got bad, you mean the Mafia hits were not bad (even if you never saw or heard them). See now they have a way to say something racist in a non racist way. Now people think Nigg... and mean it but they say African American or Homosexual instead of Fag or what ever. The atitude hasn't changed just the wording. Gerorge Carlin had lots of bits about this, in other avenues. Like how no one says he died it is "He Is gone" or "Pasted Away".
I think that there is still lots of hate in this country it is just that the words we use now are better at hiddig it. Because of that people since it isn't in the open pull the act of I'm so offened.
james - 10/13/08 19:58
I am racist.
I don't say that to be shocking or am making a joke. But I recognize the learned racism in me. I try to be mindful of the almost subconscious things I think and I try to work through them, discover the root of my ignorance and supplant it with understanding.
I find it is a much more constructive task than just patting myself on the back for pretending to be free of such bad thoughts.
I am racist.
I don't say that to be shocking or am making a joke. But I recognize the learned racism in me. I try to be mindful of the almost subconscious things I think and I try to work through them, discover the root of my ignorance and supplant it with understanding.
I find it is a much more constructive task than just patting myself on the back for pretending to be free of such bad thoughts.
drew - 10/13/08 19:10
Theologically speaking, you are touching upon the the concept we call, "total depravity," :::link:::
Which also might be called, "Don't be surprised."
Theologically speaking, you are touching upon the the concept we call, "total depravity," :::link:::
Which also might be called, "Don't be surprised."
I didn't mean to lose anyone with the sports stuff, I was just trying to show that to someone who doesn't know about sports that they might ask questions that seem weird like how someone who doesn't know about homosexuality or bisexuality might ask strange questions, I'm no expert myself and have asked a weird question before my self.
Yes I do agree with you that it is a fabrication of grouping me in with other whites I will agree with you there. I think it is also important to know that even though it is a fabrication that gives me some advantages it gives disadvatages also. I don't mean being white I mean the classes people make based on skin color. Yes I have been called a cracker, at first it was weird, but oh well. If I walk through a Nieghboor hood with drugs It is assumed that is what I'm there for. I have seen people hanging out talking on a corner they see me and all of a sudden decide to leave the corner. I was with a buddy of mine who bought stuff when he was underage and he walks in with a white boy and all of a sudden the same guy doesn't trust to sell to him any more.
I think that people naturaly group things together and that it is kinda natural. I'm not saying it is right but it has happend since the founding of our country. A polish area forms cause all the poles stick together. Even though everyone who is polish is different the things they have in common become a bond and so they don't like people who have things that are not there same beliefs (not picking on the polish pick a nationality and the result would be the same). I think this natural process has been used by people in power to keep there power and devide people and that the people in power use this to there advantage. I think it has even made it into the schools the way Color is taught. Before you are taught the science of it you are taught to keep the red things together that teaches people that the color is more important then what makes up the color (but I'm a little bit nuts so maybe this makes no sense). So then when you see some one who has skin that is different looking and different looking hair it is an easy jump to assume they are different. Again I think the powers that be use this to help keep the people below them devided and keep there power.
Uh...(e:metalpeter) I will admit you lost me with the sport references...but I do want to be very clear about my ideas of whiteness and blackness. Admitting that white people have a race is baby step number one. Step number two is to acknowledge that whiteness, just like blackness, is a cultural construct that has been manipulated, scientifically, culturally, legally, throughout history. The meanings they carry are not innate. From there you have to realize that despite the fact that there really is no such thing as whiteness or blackness (at least as we are able to understand them) that those categories nonetheless have "real" material, physical, psychological, social, legal, cultural consequences. Which brings me back to baby step number one...realizing that your "whiteness" (now in quotes that questions a surface reading) brings you privileges despite its fabricated constructions.
I thought I needed to add something but wasn't sure how to say it. The entire stupid questions men ask of Bi-Sexuals from there stand point are not stupid. They ask because they don't know. It is like when some asks how many quarters there are in a hockey game. In football there are 4 it is also a math thing since 1/4 and a quarter is the same. So what is the right answer you want to say 3 but the math isn't right so you have to say in hockey they are periods and there are 3, or if the question is asked at a College basketball game the answer would be something like there are two Halves and then how ever long each one is I think 12 minutes. Are Bisexual girls sluts no. But do some women who are with a man want a chick to join in (hey maybe she is bi maybe not) yeah some of them do.
In terms of being white. Being white is kinda weird because often Jews who look white are not considered white by people who are white (or atleast in hate groups). Where it also gets odd is that sometimes dark skined Italians get thought they are Hispanic when they are not and sometimes that goes the other way also.
I wonder if I am white. I mean depending on the time period I was white or not white. I prefer European American. I almost always cross out white and write that on anything that asks. I mean compared to (e:terry) I am not white.
P.S. Youtube doesn't work in comments Heidi, Maybe I will make it do that when I have a chance.
haha. that video is awesome! and yeah, i totally get what you are saying...i never know how to respond to shit like that...like when i wrote about that dude who couldn't believe that i liked girls cause i was "attractive". i am thinking of
1.fuck you pay me
Reply to a dispute of debt. Common gangsta mantra. Meant to express the non-negotiability of debt.
"The place burned down? Fuck you pay me. Lightning struck? Fuck you, pay me. Slow business? Fuck you, pay me." -Ray Liotta, Goodfellas
urbandictionary
:::link:::
Yeah, that's the point, isn't it? How do you put a price tag on indignities suffered every day? Would it hurt less if someone handed you $100 every time they asked you if you've ever slept with a man? I'm trying to remember the questions I get most often..."Will you have sex with me and my wife/girlfriend?" or just the assumption that being bi makes me a slut - "You're bisexual? Want to suck my cock?" It would be like slapping a fine on them, which seems kinda fun. (I hope that made sense and wasn't offensive.)
Tangentially, did you see Dan Savage's offer to be Sarah Palin's gay friend? [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leq3ydk5Ug4[/youtube]
I totally get what you are saying (e:heidi), but I would say that these prices are deeply inappropriate, as in, how can you put on price on something like that?
These prices seem perfectly appropriate:
• Touch Hair: $100 each time
• Touch Skin: $125 each touch
• Compare Your Skin Tone: $150
"Will You Tell Them I'm Not a Racist?": $1500 per vouch
"Just let it go." Overlooking racism: $1500 per incident
Thanks for sharing the site!