Watching the VP debate, I thought Palin was hanging on for dear life. And Biden was excellent. Biden was clear and direct, I think he got through to people. I hope he gets some more media attention after this.
Sarah Palin... She didn't fall down, pass out, or puke, good for her. But her responses were absolutely awful!! After about an hour I couldn't stand her anymore. Message to Sarah, if you can't answer the question please stop talking!!!!! The longest rambling responses came when she avoided questions. I could not resist smothering my head with a pillow and leaving the room during her 3 minute nonsensical answers. Finally we couldn't help muting her 3-4 times. I was screaming at Gwen Eiffel to make her stop. We liked Sarah more with the sound off.
Biden on the other hand got about 10 hell-yea's from us. Creating jobs by investing in Infrastructure and greener technologies that we can export! Healthcare at the top of the list. Sincere diplomacy to restore our standing in the world, and achieve peace. 3 weeks in Iraq = the entire Afghanistan budget so far. Epic failures of letting the market "run wild" Restoring the Middle Class!
Biden gets an A+ he could even teach Obama some things about being more direct and unequivocal in his responses. Palin gets a D-, what American was comforted by her responses?
Dcoffee's Journal
My Podcast Link
10/03/2008 10:05 #45915
Palin on MuteCategory: politics
09/20/2008 14:18 #45738
Free Market = Faith Based EconomyCategory: politics
Bush announces a $700 billion bailout plan. To put that in perspective, the Iraq War so far, over 6 years, has cost around $500 billion. Add the bailout to the $400-$500 billion spent so far on the financial sector, it's over a trillion dollars. The national debt is $9.5 trillion dollars. If all goes as planned, the debt will be over $11 trillion. That's big.
Remember how Bush wanted to privatize Social Security? Put our retirement in the stock market for 'safe keeping', imagine if that would have passed.
This deregulation nonsense has been going on for decades. The New Deal and consumer protections have slowly disappeared. Clinton, Bush, Regan, Nixon, Carter, LBJ, there's a lot of blame to go around. There have been plenty of warning signs too, Enron, the savings and loan crisis, housing bubbles, etc. But still the "Free Market" has been worshiped like some kind miracle that will fix all of our problems.
The Free Market is dead. Good Riddance.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were government agencies created during the New Deal. Privatized under LBJ to balance the budget, deregulated in future years, now we're paying for what they screwed up.
Investment Banks and Commercial Banks used to be separate. This made our money more secure by keeping it away from risky business. Under Clinton, that changed. Now our banks are floating our money in the stock market. If we all wanted to get our money out of our bank, it wouldn't be there, the bank would go bankrupt.
Debt, that's a new trend too. If you wanted a mortgage you used to need to put 25% down, no matter what. Now all you need is the closing costs to 'buy' a house. Credit Cards were basically invented in the 50s and 60s. Now people don't save any money, really America has a negative savings rate. We just make payments, forever... it's the new serfdom, we're all indentured servants.
Railroads, Airlines, Energy, all deregulated, all in trouble. Taxpayers had to pay for Enron, we had to bail out airlines. And trains have been replaced by trucks that hog oil, wear down our roads, and clog our streets.
Why don't we just privatize the Water systems, schools, Social Security, and healthcare too? Leave it up to the invisible hand of the market.
This crap doesn't save us any money, or make us any better off in the long run.
If the government screws up, we vote them out, impeach them, or put them on trial. If the stock market eats our life savings, the companies fold, and we lose everything, maybe a couple people go to jail, but most of the executives get a fat check from a company that they helped bankrupt. And we don't get our money back, unless it's insured by FDIC, a government program from the New Deal.
So Who thinks reducing government regulation of the economy was a good thing? Don't you feel better off now?
The government is corrupt. Money is power, not People. Politicians went along with this crap because it was in their own self interest.
Government has been demonized for the wrong reasons. It's not the regulations and taxes that are the problem. It's the Corruption. It's the influence of money, and the disregard for the welfare of average people.
Remember how Bush wanted to privatize Social Security? Put our retirement in the stock market for 'safe keeping', imagine if that would have passed.
This deregulation nonsense has been going on for decades. The New Deal and consumer protections have slowly disappeared. Clinton, Bush, Regan, Nixon, Carter, LBJ, there's a lot of blame to go around. There have been plenty of warning signs too, Enron, the savings and loan crisis, housing bubbles, etc. But still the "Free Market" has been worshiped like some kind miracle that will fix all of our problems.
The Free Market is dead. Good Riddance.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were government agencies created during the New Deal. Privatized under LBJ to balance the budget, deregulated in future years, now we're paying for what they screwed up.
Investment Banks and Commercial Banks used to be separate. This made our money more secure by keeping it away from risky business. Under Clinton, that changed. Now our banks are floating our money in the stock market. If we all wanted to get our money out of our bank, it wouldn't be there, the bank would go bankrupt.
Debt, that's a new trend too. If you wanted a mortgage you used to need to put 25% down, no matter what. Now all you need is the closing costs to 'buy' a house. Credit Cards were basically invented in the 50s and 60s. Now people don't save any money, really America has a negative savings rate. We just make payments, forever... it's the new serfdom, we're all indentured servants.
Railroads, Airlines, Energy, all deregulated, all in trouble. Taxpayers had to pay for Enron, we had to bail out airlines. And trains have been replaced by trucks that hog oil, wear down our roads, and clog our streets.
Why don't we just privatize the Water systems, schools, Social Security, and healthcare too? Leave it up to the invisible hand of the market.
This crap doesn't save us any money, or make us any better off in the long run.
If the government screws up, we vote them out, impeach them, or put them on trial. If the stock market eats our life savings, the companies fold, and we lose everything, maybe a couple people go to jail, but most of the executives get a fat check from a company that they helped bankrupt. And we don't get our money back, unless it's insured by FDIC, a government program from the New Deal.
So Who thinks reducing government regulation of the economy was a good thing? Don't you feel better off now?
The government is corrupt. Money is power, not People. Politicians went along with this crap because it was in their own self interest.
Government has been demonized for the wrong reasons. It's not the regulations and taxes that are the problem. It's the Corruption. It's the influence of money, and the disregard for the welfare of average people.
vincent - 09/22/08 23:09
The perfect example of where deregulation just made life miserable for everyone is the airline industry. We would be so much better off if routes were still regulated. Small cities would still have mandated service and the congestion that we see would not be as bad at certain airports. Yea, you can say that there would be higher prices, but in the end we still ended up paying higher prices even if you don't choose curbside check in and check that extra bag.
The perfect example of where deregulation just made life miserable for everyone is the airline industry. We would be so much better off if routes were still regulated. Small cities would still have mandated service and the congestion that we see would not be as bad at certain airports. Yea, you can say that there would be higher prices, but in the end we still ended up paying higher prices even if you don't choose curbside check in and check that extra bag.
dcoffee - 09/21/08 15:32
Wow, (e:libertad) that story completely puts this crisis in perspective. Mortgage problems, Student Loans, declining benefits and wages.
Let me add another example to that list, my mother had to declare bankruptcy because of a medical bill. And she had her tax refund taken every year to pay off her student loans from UB.
Back in the 60s you could raise a family of 8 kids with just one parent working a job as a trucker. That's what happened in my mom's family. Now most people can't raise a family half that size working 2 or 3 jobs. It's because they have so many expenses. Healthcare, childcare, gas, food, insurance, school, retirement. The government does less, and my expenses are higher.
I don't see any evidence that the Free Market, and deregulation have done us any good. All I see is people working more and getting less for it. The government just got out of the way so that private companies can squeeze every last dime out of us. In fact they're even taking money we don't have, or haven't earned yet, through loans.
The interest rates on student Loans have only gone up since I was in college. What if your parents can't afford to pay your college? You start your working life with a huge amount of debt $25 - $70 thousand, even before the credit card and the mortgage. And why do we go to college? To get a decent job with a good starting salary. Even though anyone will tell you that it's more important to be happy doing what you like than making a lot of money. But you have to pay $300 on your loans every month. So why bother studying Political Science and trying to make a difference in the world, when you got bills to pay.
Inequality in this country is at the worst level since the great depression, where the bottom 90% of America only posses 20% of the wealth :::link:::
We need government intervention to fix this mess. Adam Smith was full of crap. And we need to do more than buy Wall Streets problems and mortgage our future.
Wow, (e:libertad) that story completely puts this crisis in perspective. Mortgage problems, Student Loans, declining benefits and wages.
Let me add another example to that list, my mother had to declare bankruptcy because of a medical bill. And she had her tax refund taken every year to pay off her student loans from UB.
Back in the 60s you could raise a family of 8 kids with just one parent working a job as a trucker. That's what happened in my mom's family. Now most people can't raise a family half that size working 2 or 3 jobs. It's because they have so many expenses. Healthcare, childcare, gas, food, insurance, school, retirement. The government does less, and my expenses are higher.
I don't see any evidence that the Free Market, and deregulation have done us any good. All I see is people working more and getting less for it. The government just got out of the way so that private companies can squeeze every last dime out of us. In fact they're even taking money we don't have, or haven't earned yet, through loans.
The interest rates on student Loans have only gone up since I was in college. What if your parents can't afford to pay your college? You start your working life with a huge amount of debt $25 - $70 thousand, even before the credit card and the mortgage. And why do we go to college? To get a decent job with a good starting salary. Even though anyone will tell you that it's more important to be happy doing what you like than making a lot of money. But you have to pay $300 on your loans every month. So why bother studying Political Science and trying to make a difference in the world, when you got bills to pay.
Inequality in this country is at the worst level since the great depression, where the bottom 90% of America only posses 20% of the wealth :::link:::
We need government intervention to fix this mess. Adam Smith was full of crap. And we need to do more than buy Wall Streets problems and mortgage our future.
libertad - 09/21/08 09:50
I have always hated Adam Smith and his "invisible hand". Sounds good in theory but as we can see in practice it really isn't working. It might work for some for a while but eventually government will have to step in to clean up the mess.
I'm really surprised that the bailout plan will supersede the cost of the Iraq war up to this point. I think you are right, it would have been better to help individuals in a program designed to help them save their homes and credit rather than just bail out the banks. My sister is one of the people who had her home foreclosed on. What happened was that after her divorce she couldn't afford the house she lived in so she tried to sell it but without anyone ever looking at it because of the housing crisis. Her only option was to let the banks foreclose. Now her credit is screwed and I worry that if she ever had to find an apartment that she would be denied. It really is not such a good situation for her or for anybody really.
I also feel like an indentured servant in a way. My student loans severely hinder my options and career path. Just recently, I decided to not apply to a job that would be perfect for me but it interfered with my ability to make even more money elsewhere at least in the short term. I work really hard to pay my bills and then there is little left over. I don't even have money to buy things like boots and a decent coat for the winter. The government hasn't bailed me out. My student loan interest rates are locked in forever. Bankruptcy is not an option on student loans, they will haunt you for the rest of your life. I borrowed the money and I will pay it back, but I just wish that I was better off for going to get an education rather than worse off. I worked the entire time I was in school but it wasn't enough so I had to take out the loans. I never used those loans for vacations or clothes or used it frivolously.
There is this idea that if you work really hard you can pull yourself up and achieve this so called American dream. I just don't really think that is true. People might say well you could have just gotten a degree in this or that and be fine but look at how much things have changed. My father and grandfather raised families of 5 and 7 respectively with high school diplomas and both did very well. Now my father went back to school with a degree in math and computers and is struggling to support just himself. I don't even know if he will ever be able to retire. He went from raising a family of five, living on Long Island with an in ground pool to not being able to retire. He has worked harder than anyone I have ever known and now he is stuck not because of his lack of a will but because that is the cards he was dealt.
I have always hated Adam Smith and his "invisible hand". Sounds good in theory but as we can see in practice it really isn't working. It might work for some for a while but eventually government will have to step in to clean up the mess.
I'm really surprised that the bailout plan will supersede the cost of the Iraq war up to this point. I think you are right, it would have been better to help individuals in a program designed to help them save their homes and credit rather than just bail out the banks. My sister is one of the people who had her home foreclosed on. What happened was that after her divorce she couldn't afford the house she lived in so she tried to sell it but without anyone ever looking at it because of the housing crisis. Her only option was to let the banks foreclose. Now her credit is screwed and I worry that if she ever had to find an apartment that she would be denied. It really is not such a good situation for her or for anybody really.
I also feel like an indentured servant in a way. My student loans severely hinder my options and career path. Just recently, I decided to not apply to a job that would be perfect for me but it interfered with my ability to make even more money elsewhere at least in the short term. I work really hard to pay my bills and then there is little left over. I don't even have money to buy things like boots and a decent coat for the winter. The government hasn't bailed me out. My student loan interest rates are locked in forever. Bankruptcy is not an option on student loans, they will haunt you for the rest of your life. I borrowed the money and I will pay it back, but I just wish that I was better off for going to get an education rather than worse off. I worked the entire time I was in school but it wasn't enough so I had to take out the loans. I never used those loans for vacations or clothes or used it frivolously.
There is this idea that if you work really hard you can pull yourself up and achieve this so called American dream. I just don't really think that is true. People might say well you could have just gotten a degree in this or that and be fine but look at how much things have changed. My father and grandfather raised families of 5 and 7 respectively with high school diplomas and both did very well. Now my father went back to school with a degree in math and computers and is struggling to support just himself. I don't even know if he will ever be able to retire. He went from raising a family of five, living on Long Island with an in ground pool to not being able to retire. He has worked harder than anyone I have ever known and now he is stuck not because of his lack of a will but because that is the cards he was dealt.
dcoffee - 09/20/08 22:26
Here's a good way to put the Wall St bailout in perspective. $700 billion means $2,293 per person. Every man woman and child in America would pay that much. That is a lot of cash. How can we afford that? Sounds pretty extreme to me.
Here's a good way to put the Wall St bailout in perspective. $700 billion means $2,293 per person. Every man woman and child in America would pay that much. That is a lot of cash. How can we afford that? Sounds pretty extreme to me.
tinypliny - 09/20/08 21:25
I am not sure that a concept of pure democracy can ever co-exist with capitalism.
I am not sure that a concept of pure democracy can ever co-exist with capitalism.
09/19/2008 17:39 #45732
Financial BailoutsCategory: political
We've been watching the government use hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in order to bail out huge irresponsible corporations that made bad bets in an under-regulated stock market. The CEOs of these corporations still get paid despite the damage they've done. They'll keep their pensions, while the rest of us are losing our life savings. We taxpayers now own their crappiest investments and worst decisions, because we just propped them up by buying their debt with some national debt, even though we already have $9 trillion worth.
This offends me on so many levels.
Here's one point that few are mentioning.
Why are these companies suddenly going bankrupt? Because Americans can't pay their debts. The Loans and mortgages aren't being repaid. Why can't Americans pay? Because the housing bubble popped, and people's homes are now worth less than their mortgages they owe. Or people got varriable rate morgages, now they can't afford the interest. So people are going bankrupt and losing their homes in record numbers.
People leave those homes empty, and declare bankruptcy, they have no good options. People got screwed, so the banks are no longer getting all that money they were promised. So.... now the banks are screwed.
Suddenly the government is willing to shovel cash at rich people who mad terrible choices and led their companies into the ground. But when average Americans lost their homes, we called it a Handout, rewarding people who made bad decisions.
Now it's Wall St, and we call it a Bailout, stabilizing the economy. Well, if you'd helped people stay in their homes and pay their debts, this never would have reached Wall St. Why should the middle class bail out Wall St after we were left to fend for ourselves when we were in trouble.
Anybody know how much money the government has put toward helping citizens overcome the housing crisis? I'll bet it's less than $400 billion. But that's what us citizens has given to Wall St over the past year.
This offends me on so many levels.
Here's one point that few are mentioning.
Why are these companies suddenly going bankrupt? Because Americans can't pay their debts. The Loans and mortgages aren't being repaid. Why can't Americans pay? Because the housing bubble popped, and people's homes are now worth less than their mortgages they owe. Or people got varriable rate morgages, now they can't afford the interest. So people are going bankrupt and losing their homes in record numbers.
People leave those homes empty, and declare bankruptcy, they have no good options. People got screwed, so the banks are no longer getting all that money they were promised. So.... now the banks are screwed.
Suddenly the government is willing to shovel cash at rich people who mad terrible choices and led their companies into the ground. But when average Americans lost their homes, we called it a Handout, rewarding people who made bad decisions.
Now it's Wall St, and we call it a Bailout, stabilizing the economy. Well, if you'd helped people stay in their homes and pay their debts, this never would have reached Wall St. Why should the middle class bail out Wall St after we were left to fend for ourselves when we were in trouble.
Anybody know how much money the government has put toward helping citizens overcome the housing crisis? I'll bet it's less than $400 billion. But that's what us citizens has given to Wall St over the past year.
drew - 09/20/08 00:21
Good post.
Good post.
tinypliny - 09/19/08 21:15
I heard today that the Palindrone/Crypt-keeper duo might possibly win this November. I am scared to think of what might happen then. The whole Alaskan glacier will probably disintegrate due to drilling, America will go to war with a bunch of European countries because it's after all a "mission from God" Himself, abortions will be banned so teenagers and women can die from illegal and unsafe abortions or go to Mexico or Canada to get one, all the dissidents will be fired from all government and public-service posts and nepotism will be the law of the land, health-care will be increasingly taxed and insurance premiums will go up for the average American, people without insurance - who gives a damn about them anyway?, money will be pulled from research and there will be a mass exodus of scientists to Europe and Asia (Singapore and China, in particular), Creationism will be the ONLY doctrine and Science will be terribly unpopular as a subject, the Church will fuse with the government and start witch-hunting once again... ... The possibilities are endless. How exciting.
I heard today that the Palindrone/Crypt-keeper duo might possibly win this November. I am scared to think of what might happen then. The whole Alaskan glacier will probably disintegrate due to drilling, America will go to war with a bunch of European countries because it's after all a "mission from God" Himself, abortions will be banned so teenagers and women can die from illegal and unsafe abortions or go to Mexico or Canada to get one, all the dissidents will be fired from all government and public-service posts and nepotism will be the law of the land, health-care will be increasingly taxed and insurance premiums will go up for the average American, people without insurance - who gives a damn about them anyway?, money will be pulled from research and there will be a mass exodus of scientists to Europe and Asia (Singapore and China, in particular), Creationism will be the ONLY doctrine and Science will be terribly unpopular as a subject, the Church will fuse with the government and start witch-hunting once again... ... The possibilities are endless. How exciting.
tinypliny - 09/19/08 21:08
Wrong priorities. :/ What IS up with all this totally random selfish decisions? Don't people of America have any say in these? How could you let this happen? Why aren't there protests and demonstrations of indignation?
Wrong priorities. :/ What IS up with all this totally random selfish decisions? Don't people of America have any say in these? How could you let this happen? Why aren't there protests and demonstrations of indignation?
dcoffee - 09/19/08 20:44
Speaking of Oil, here's an article on the recent energy bill. An all of the above approach, that also took away the subsidies to Oil companies. It didn't pass because Republicans didn't like the idea of saving $18 billion per year by getting rid of the tax breaks for oil companies. :::link:::
Speaking of Oil, here's an article on the recent energy bill. An all of the above approach, that also took away the subsidies to Oil companies. It didn't pass because Republicans didn't like the idea of saving $18 billion per year by getting rid of the tax breaks for oil companies. :::link:::
tinypliny - 09/19/08 20:20
This viewpoint is so infuriating. It really makes me think that the government in this country is only after oil of nations around the world for personal gain of a few and now is shovelling all the hard-earned money of the average American into the hands of the few rich ones who probably also were responsible for the whole oil grabbing lying scheme in the first place. :/ Depressing.
This viewpoint is so infuriating. It really makes me think that the government in this country is only after oil of nations around the world for personal gain of a few and now is shovelling all the hard-earned money of the average American into the hands of the few rich ones who probably also were responsible for the whole oil grabbing lying scheme in the first place. :/ Depressing.
09/10/2008 13:17 #45623
Lies, Media, CampaignsCategory: politics
I get really offended when people lie to the public.
What does it say about someone when they repeat a lie over and over again in front of the American people? Especially when that person is trying to get those same people to vote for them. Especially when they're running for the highest office in the land.
McCain, Palin, and the Republicans don't respect democracy, they don't respect you, they think we're a bunch of gullible morons.
They Lie about Obama's tax plan, healthcare plan, energy plan and his voting record. They lie about the bridge to nowhere. They lie about their record, and they say one thing while their actions tell us the opposite.
The Republicans are on record saying facts and issues don't matter, people vote for a composite image of the candidate. Ok, and you're going to build that image with lies? Excuse me, but elections are NOT a fucking game.
This country is in dire straights, but Republicans would rather win an election than offer solutions. Straight talk my ass.
Tell me if Obama, or his campaign has lied about McCain and Palin. I can find false internet rumors, but nothing from the actual Obama Campaign.
The media should call a lie when they see one. There aren't always two sides to a story. Journalists need to set the record straight, and realize that lies are not just a matter of opinion. I've noticed some indications that they may start doing more fact checking, if they don't, they fail.
Sources:
What does it say about someone when they repeat a lie over and over again in front of the American people? Especially when that person is trying to get those same people to vote for them. Especially when they're running for the highest office in the land.
McCain, Palin, and the Republicans don't respect democracy, they don't respect you, they think we're a bunch of gullible morons.
They Lie about Obama's tax plan, healthcare plan, energy plan and his voting record. They lie about the bridge to nowhere. They lie about their record, and they say one thing while their actions tell us the opposite.
The Republicans are on record saying facts and issues don't matter, people vote for a composite image of the candidate. Ok, and you're going to build that image with lies? Excuse me, but elections are NOT a fucking game.
This country is in dire straights, but Republicans would rather win an election than offer solutions. Straight talk my ass.
Tell me if Obama, or his campaign has lied about McCain and Palin. I can find false internet rumors, but nothing from the actual Obama Campaign.
The media should call a lie when they see one. There aren't always two sides to a story. Journalists need to set the record straight, and realize that lies are not just a matter of opinion. I've noticed some indications that they may start doing more fact checking, if they don't, they fail.
Sources:
tinypliny - 09/11/08 23:16
You know, I do find that aspect quite refreshing in your country. As a people collectively, you are very honest. I can see how lies come as a shock.
But your current president's been lying for nearly a decade now along with his former PM crony B.grade.Liar across the pond.
You know, I do find that aspect quite refreshing in your country. As a people collectively, you are very honest. I can see how lies come as a shock.
But your current president's been lying for nearly a decade now along with his former PM crony B.grade.Liar across the pond.
dcoffee - 09/11/08 23:09
Another AP article, very blunt about McCain and Palin's Lies. :::link::: The media seems to be reacting, I even saw something mentioned briefly on ABC Nightly news.
But I wonder if Americans are so cynical that we expect politicians to lie. Will people be as outraged as me, or will they just call him a maverick for trying to pull off a big lie? I mean, personally when somebody lies to me in a speech or advertisement, I feel like they're calling me an asshole. "You're an asshole with shit for brains, vote for me". We sue companies for false advertisement, what's different here?
I really have been looking for Obama BS too, I can't find much, all I got are statistics that are slightly exaggerated, or just using the median and calling it the 'average', or using 'working families' income to exclude gains at the top. As the old saying goes, "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics" Obama works the statistics, McCain/Palin use Damn Lies, even after people call them on it.
Another AP article, very blunt about McCain and Palin's Lies. :::link::: The media seems to be reacting, I even saw something mentioned briefly on ABC Nightly news.
But I wonder if Americans are so cynical that we expect politicians to lie. Will people be as outraged as me, or will they just call him a maverick for trying to pull off a big lie? I mean, personally when somebody lies to me in a speech or advertisement, I feel like they're calling me an asshole. "You're an asshole with shit for brains, vote for me". We sue companies for false advertisement, what's different here?
I really have been looking for Obama BS too, I can't find much, all I got are statistics that are slightly exaggerated, or just using the median and calling it the 'average', or using 'working families' income to exclude gains at the top. As the old saying goes, "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics" Obama works the statistics, McCain/Palin use Damn Lies, even after people call them on it.
dcoffee - 09/11/08 00:03
Starting to Backfire. I think it's cause Obama used the term.. (Gasp! quick, hide the children) "Lie"
Here's the new Obama Ad :::link:::
Here's some new found criticism.
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
Starting to Backfire. I think it's cause Obama used the term.. (Gasp! quick, hide the children) "Lie"
Here's the new Obama Ad :::link:::
Here's some new found criticism.
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
:::link:::
- sigh of relief*
johnallen - 09/10/08 21:28
The game has begun
The game has begun
tinypliny - 09/10/08 20:40
Politics is just another name for lying and dirt-digging. So this isn't really quite so unexpected, or is it?
Politics is just another name for lying and dirt-digging. So this isn't really quite so unexpected, or is it?
jason - 09/10/08 19:06
Arg, I was wrong about the Obama campaign.
:::link:::
I guess I don't know who to believe in anymore.
Arg, I was wrong about the Obama campaign.
:::link:::
I guess I don't know who to believe in anymore.
jason - 09/10/08 18:58
(e:DCoffee) - Did I mention how much I love the Fact Check site? They fact check everyone. Not that too many here will be interested, but they fact checked Obama as well. I was surprised to see that they apply some Glade to the flatulence emanating from the blogosphere. This may be the only really trustworthy body of information we have at the moment.
I don't know how people who cried bloody murder when the Republicans labeled them traitors and such ("Dissent is Patriotic!") can reconcile their hyperbole with that earlier indignant stance. Either it is a case of "turnabout is fair play" where they don't really believe it but want to use it to hurt people politically, or they are unconsciously being hypocritical. As you can see on the Fact Check site, this is not a partisan problem.
And have any of you noticed that the high minded talk of Obama, talking about national unity, and for the bitterness to end, is inspiring almost nobody? I only say "almost" because that is change that I believe in. I've changed my personal behavior in the past few years due to this belief. I know that people who disagree with me have the best interests of the country at heart in most circumstances. Obama's campaign is *clean* as far as I'm concerned when it comes to this, but I think that's about where it stops.
(e:DCoffee) - Did I mention how much I love the Fact Check site? They fact check everyone. Not that too many here will be interested, but they fact checked Obama as well. I was surprised to see that they apply some Glade to the flatulence emanating from the blogosphere. This may be the only really trustworthy body of information we have at the moment.
I don't know how people who cried bloody murder when the Republicans labeled them traitors and such ("Dissent is Patriotic!") can reconcile their hyperbole with that earlier indignant stance. Either it is a case of "turnabout is fair play" where they don't really believe it but want to use it to hurt people politically, or they are unconsciously being hypocritical. As you can see on the Fact Check site, this is not a partisan problem.
And have any of you noticed that the high minded talk of Obama, talking about national unity, and for the bitterness to end, is inspiring almost nobody? I only say "almost" because that is change that I believe in. I've changed my personal behavior in the past few years due to this belief. I know that people who disagree with me have the best interests of the country at heart in most circumstances. Obama's campaign is *clean* as far as I'm concerned when it comes to this, but I think that's about where it stops.
jim - 09/10/08 15:24
Even beyond that Drew, when the lies are exposed they redouble their efforts to put the lie out there and pretend like they're being attacked out of bounds personally instead of being called out for what they're peddling.
I'm not saying it's a Republican thing to do that, but it sure is the McCain/Palin way of operating.
Even beyond that Drew, when the lies are exposed they redouble their efforts to put the lie out there and pretend like they're being attacked out of bounds personally instead of being called out for what they're peddling.
I'm not saying it's a Republican thing to do that, but it sure is the McCain/Palin way of operating.
joshua - 09/10/08 14:57
I'm 100% sure you feel the way you do and are not lying about it, but really... saying that McCain, Palin and Republicans don't respect democracy is hyperbole and I suspect that your intense interest in the race is getting the better of you. If you react with outrage at hyperbole such as "liberals are unpatriotic and hate America" I would expect that you would reject the use of similar hyperbole.
I'm 100% sure you feel the way you do and are not lying about it, but really... saying that McCain, Palin and Republicans don't respect democracy is hyperbole and I suspect that your intense interest in the race is getting the better of you. If you react with outrage at hyperbole such as "liberals are unpatriotic and hate America" I would expect that you would reject the use of similar hyperbole.
drew - 09/10/08 14:27
What has really surprised me is that most of the time when the lies are exposed, not only do the lies continue, but the supporters of the liars don't care!
What has really surprised me is that most of the time when the lies are exposed, not only do the lies continue, but the supporters of the liars don't care!
dcoffee - 09/10/08 13:50
PS, I didn't vote yesterday in the local Dem primary. Getting 4 negative adds in my mailbox daily just turned me off. I was busy, why should I go out of my way to support that crap.
PS, I didn't vote yesterday in the local Dem primary. Getting 4 negative adds in my mailbox daily just turned me off. I was busy, why should I go out of my way to support that crap.
09/04/2008 08:57 #45560
RNC thoughtsCategory: politics
I thought Palin delivered her speech very well. She will probably be an asset after all. Seems like she might help the Republicans keep some of their usual voters, I think she shored up the base a bit. She looked like a normal kind of person who supports all of the conservative principles. Kind of makes the party look like it's not just for billionaires.
The conventions are basically a string of monologues, speeches in front of sympathetic crowds. It's much more difficult when you have someone questioning your assertions in a debate, press conference or interview.
The thing that bugs me about the Republicans, at least the ones who get the most attention, is that they don't respect the truth. And when they get up in front of the TV cameras and distort the facts, they are insulting the American people. Say whatever it takes to get elected, turn the elections into lip service, the goal is to win, who cares how you get there.
I watched Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, some of Lieberman, and Palin. I knew what was bullshit, but not everyone does. I was happy to find this article from the AP when I woke up, At least to AP noticed it too.
Here's an AP fact check of Palin's speech, and some other statements:
And a few debunked claims from Liberman and Fred Thompson:
I want to take people to court who lie to the American people like this.
The conventions are basically a string of monologues, speeches in front of sympathetic crowds. It's much more difficult when you have someone questioning your assertions in a debate, press conference or interview.
The thing that bugs me about the Republicans, at least the ones who get the most attention, is that they don't respect the truth. And when they get up in front of the TV cameras and distort the facts, they are insulting the American people. Say whatever it takes to get elected, turn the elections into lip service, the goal is to win, who cares how you get there.
I watched Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, some of Lieberman, and Palin. I knew what was bullshit, but not everyone does. I was happy to find this article from the AP when I woke up, At least to AP noticed it too.
Here's an AP fact check of Palin's speech, and some other statements:
And a few debunked claims from Liberman and Fred Thompson:
I want to take people to court who lie to the American people like this.
dcoffee - 09/04/08 19:10
I don't remember the Democratic speakers distorting McCain's record this badly. If I missed something please let me know. McCain may have opposed Bush in the past, but he's changed his mind on everything from torture to tax cuts.
I may have painted Republicans with too broad a brush though, considering Lieberman was one of the worst.
I don't remember the Democratic speakers distorting McCain's record this badly. If I missed something please let me know. McCain may have opposed Bush in the past, but he's changed his mind on everything from torture to tax cuts.
I may have painted Republicans with too broad a brush though, considering Lieberman was one of the worst.
joshua - 09/04/08 16:31
PS - I didn't notice your complaints of the structure of conventions last week.
PS - I didn't notice your complaints of the structure of conventions last week.
joshua - 09/04/08 16:30
I can't believe that you'd accuse Republicans of doing what Obama has been doing for the past month.
I can't believe that you'd accuse Republicans of doing what Obama has been doing for the past month.
drew - 09/04/08 09:57
I caught a couple lies, too.
They did what they do well, though. Maybe the election won't be the blow-out I thought it would be.
I caught a couple lies, too.
They did what they do well, though. Maybe the election won't be the blow-out I thought it would be.
It is definitely believable that a significant portion of the people watching last night already knew what they would think after it was over. In this sense it was like a sporting event. This is sort of why I have been avoiding the topic. It is very easy for anyone to discover factual inaccuracies and misstatements during these debates and in speeches, but the fact of the matter is that nobody is interested in substance. That much has been made more than obvious over the past couple of months. So I say screw it, let the country burn. That's about where I'm at.
Yea, if you think the country is close to a meltdown, and you want a new New Deal, you might have gained some faith in the Democratic Party. Not sure if the Republicans gained anything. Palin looked like some college Republicans president. With the sound off, she looked like a local news anchor.
Well, if we are talking about applauding flat out liberal boilerplate, then I suppose there is something to be happy about. These people are making promises that won't come true. And lets be honest Dave - there is nothing that could have come out of Sarah Palin's mouth that would have made you happy. I predicted this journal entry would happen!