If you haven't seen Obama's Speech, I'd definitely recommend it.
The NY Times has the transcript on the same page as the video,
I think the speech was excellent. The whole convention went well. I feel like I know the Democratic party much better, I feel like they understand the problems of everyday people, and they care about making things better. I also feel like I can relate to the Democratic Party more than I ever have before.
The Democratic Party is diverse, but they find common ground and move in the right direction. They don't all agree on things like the death penalty, nuclear power, blackwater, or NAFTA, but they're able to find common ground and keep moving ahead. You have people like John Lewis, an old black congressman who marched alongside MLK and got beaten in the street by cops, you've got Waxman, and Dodd, and Richardson, and Kucinnich, and Jim Webb. This party looks like America, it's not a bunch of fat cats who can't relate to what's actually going on in the lives of Americans. They feel a duty and a responsibility to look out for the common good.
In Obama's speech he gave specifics on where he stands and what he wants to do in Washington. He also attacked the Republican policies point blank. He totally redefined the debate. But beyond that, he reminded us what makes America great. When we work together, for a common purpose, we can do great things. Let's get back to that basic American idea, that we want to help create a better future for our children. Let's see the Republicans answer that one, do you want a better future for our children or not? If you do, we need to take action on better schools, global warming, healthcare, the middle class, voting integrity, international respect, keeping jobs in America and being a self-sufficient nation, where those who work hard can get ahead.
Let's stop dividing ourselves into categories and realize that we are all Americans, we're in this together, and if we work together we will succeed.
Some of my favorite quotes:
"through hard work and sacrifice, each of us can pursue our individual dreams but still come together as one American family, to ensure that the next generation can pursue their dreams as well."
"These challenges are not all of government's making. But the failure to respond is a direct result of a broken politics in Washington and the failed presidency [ouch] of George W. Bush. America, we are better than these last eight years. We are a better country than this."
"the record's clear: John McCain has voted with George Bush 90 percent of the time. Sen. McCain likes to talk about judgment, but really, what does it say about your judgment when you think George Bush was right more than 90 percent of the time? I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to take a 10 percent chance on change." -zing!
"Now, I don't believe that Senator McCain doesn't care what's going on in the lives of Americans. I just think he doesn't know."
"For over two decades, he's subscribed to that old, discredited Republican philosophy - give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else. In Washington, they call this the Ownership Society, but what it really means is - you're on your own. Out of work? Tough luck. No health care? The market will fix it. Born into poverty? Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps - even if you don't have boots. You're on your own. Well it's time for them to own their failure." [D-Pumps fist]
Fundamental Point: "You see, we Democrats have a very different measure of what constitutes progress in this country.
We measure progress by how many people can find a job that pays the mortgage; whether you can put away a little extra money at the end of each month so that you can someday watch your child receive her diploma ... We measure the strength of our economy not by the number of billionaires we have or the profits of the Fortune 500, but by whether someone with a good idea can take a risk and start a business, or whether the waitress who lives on tips can take a day off to look after a sick kid without losing her job - an economy that honors the dignity of work. The fundamentals we use to measure economic strength are whether we are living up to that fundamental promise that has made this country great "
[Talks about his less than privileged family, well worth watching] then - "I don't know what kind of lives John McCain thinks that celebrities lead, but this has been mine. These are my heroes. Theirs are the stories that shaped me. And it is on their behalf that I intend to win this election and keep our promise alive as President of the United States." [crumples the elitist caricature into a ball and tosses McCain's money in the garbage]
"It's a promise that says each of us has the freedom to make of our own lives what we will, but that we also have the obligation to treat each other with dignity and respect.
It's a promise that says the market should reward drive and innovation and generate growth, but that businesses should live up to their responsibilities to create American jobs, look out for American workers, and play by the rules of the road."
"government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves - protect us from harm and provide every child a decent education; keep our water clean and our toys safe; invest in new schools and new roads and new science and technology." [pops the conservatives balloon, and drain's the bathtub Norquist wanted to drown the government in]
Our government should work for us, not against us. It should help us, not hurt us. It should ensure opportunity not just for those with the most money and influence, but for every American who's willing to work.
That's the promise of America - the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation; the fundamental belief that I am my brother's keeper; I am my sister's keeper.
That's the promise we need to keep. That's the change we need right now. So let me spell out exactly what that change would mean if I am President. " [see below for abbreviated platform]
"The times are too serious, the stakes are too high for this same partisan playbook. So let us agree that patriotism has no party. I love this country, and so do you, and so does John McCain. The men and women who serve in our battlefields may be Democrats and Republicans and Independents, but they have fought together and bled together and some died together under the same proud flag. They have not served a Red America or a Blue America - they have served the United States of America."
"What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose - our sense of higher purpose. And that's what we have to restore."
"If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from.
You make a big election about small things.
And you know what - it's worked before. Because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping, and settle for what you already know."
"I get it. I realize that I am not the likeliest candidate for this office. I don't fit the typical pedigree, and I haven't spent my career in the halls of Washington.
But I stand before you tonight because all across America something is stirring. What the nay-sayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me. It's been about you. "
"You understand that in this election, the greatest risk we can take is to try the same old politics with the same old players and expect a different result. You have shown what history teaches us - that at defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington. Change happens because the American people demand it"
"This country of ours has more wealth than any nation, but that's not what makes us rich. We have the most powerful military on Earth, but that's not what makes us strong. Our universities and our culture are the envy of the world, but that's not what keeps the world coming to our shores.
Instead, it is that American spirit - that American promise - that pushes us forward even when the path is uncertain; that binds us together in spite of our differences"
"That promise is our greatest inheritance. It's a promise I make to my daughters when I tuck them in at night, and a promise that you make to yours - a promise that has led immigrants to cross oceans and pioneers to travel west; a promise that led workers to picket lines, and women to reach for the ballot.
And it is that promise that forty five years ago today, brought Americans from every corner of this land to stand together on a Mall in Washington, before Lincoln's Memorial, and hear a young preacher from Georgia speak of his dream. "
"At this moment, in this election, we must pledge once more to march into the future. Let us keep that promise - that American promise - and in the words of Scripture hold firmly, without wavering, to the hope that we confess."
Barrack Obama's Platform in incomplete sentences:
"stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship our jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America."
"cut taxes - for 95 percent of all working families."
"in ten years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East."
"meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy. Michelle and I are only here tonight because we were given a chance at an education. And I will not settle for an America where some kids don't have that chance."
"Washington has been talking about our oil addiction for the last 30 years (OPEC Price tripled in 70's), and John McCain has been there for 26 of them. In that time, he's said no to higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, no to investments in renewable energy, no to renewable fuels."
"drilling is a stopgap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close."
"As president, I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies retool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America."
"invest $150 billion over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy ... an investment that will lead to new industries and five million new jobs that pay well and can't ever be outsourced."
"If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. And as someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most."
"Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws, so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses; and the time to protect Social Security for future generations."
"Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime - by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less - because we cannot meet twenty-first century challenges with a twentieth century bureaucracy." - good start
"we must also admit that fulfilling America's promise will require more than just money. It will require a renewed sense of responsibility from each of us to recover what John F. Kennedy called our "intellectual and moral strength."
"Individual responsibility and mutual responsibility - that's the essence of America's promise. "
"We are the party of Roosevelt. We are the party of Kennedy. So don't tell me that Democrats won't defend this country. Don't tell me that Democrats won't keep us safe. The Bush-McCain foreign policy has squandered the legacy that generations of Americans - Democrats and Republicans - have built, and we are to restore that legacy." [Long Convincing national security part, basically says history has proved him right and McCain wrong]
"You don't defeat a terrorist network that operates in eighty countries by occupying Iraq."
"I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts. But I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons."
"We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country. The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals. I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination. Passions fly on immigration, but I don't know anyone who benefits when a mother is separated from her infant child or an employer undercuts American wages by hiring illegal workers. This too is part of America's promise - the promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort."
I'd call it a pragmatic Liberal platform with patriotic vision.
wow, this is long, how the hell could I call this a summary.
Dcoffee's Journal
My Podcast Link
08/29/2008 13:49 #45498
Reflections on Obama's NightCategory: politics
08/28/2008 10:55 #45482
Democrats doing pretty goodCategory: politics
I'm not going to go into much detail about the convention itself, but so far I'm pretty impressed.
the Democrats seem like the ones who can honestly understand the problems of the Middle-Class. They know what we're dealing with, and they have good solutions that will to get us there.
Their platform can be summarized in 2 points.
Rebuild the American Dream
restore America's standing in the world
The American dream is not based on what you can buy, it's not about having a house and a car and a pool. Everybody has their own dream, and the promise of America is that every child should have the opportunity to reach that dream if they try. This is not a society of classes, America is the place where those who work hard get ahead in life. That is a basic American value, and it has been under assault for the past 8 years.
Restoring America's standing in the world. "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." It is NOT in our self-interest to be isolated and despised by other countries. To be respected we need to lead by example, and quit yelling at other countries to do as we say, not as we do.
Here's the great side effect of this campaign; They are empowering the American people, building efficacy, and convincing us that if we work for it, we can create a better America together. That's powerful stuff, and it goes beyond just selling the Democratic party, it's bigger than that. It says Americans determine the course of our own country.
The one thing that's missing from the message so far...
Adopting a progressive platform is in America's self-interest.
We need and educated public so we can innovate better and faster than the rest of the world.
We need smart poor kids to have the chance to get out of the ghetto and put their great ideas to use for America.
We need renewable energy, because we know everyone is going to want it, and if we have the best product, made in America, then we win economically.
We need allies and international laws, to settle disagreements between nations. So we don't have to send our ambitious young people off to be killed, maimed, and mentally devastated. Our military people should be at home raising their families, instead of leaving them to worry night and day about your safety.
We need to end the War in Iraq, because it is bankrupting our country, as we borrow money to pay for a mistake.
We need universal healthcare, because at some point everybody needs medical attention, and nobody should lose their house because of a medical bill. Families should be able to focus on raising their kids. And not have to work two jobs just to afford for-profit health insurance.
We need to rebuild our infrastructure, because we don't want bridges to fall down while we drive over them, or levees to break and flood cities. The government has a job to do, and it would employ millions of Americans.
We need a strong middle class, because that's what drives our economy, and helps people realize their American Dream.
Americans are a proud people. We can accomplish anything. We're smart ambitious and innovative. We've been on the cutting edge many times in our history. We've invented incredible things, and achieved great progress. As a nation, we need to tap into that American spirit, and trust the American people. We need a government that believes in us and partners with us, instead of a selfish government that hides from us and deceives us.
If I were a Democrat I'd be appealing to the practical side, as well as the proud side of America.
We'll see what Barrack Obama says tonight. I liked Bill Clinton's speach the best so far, though Hillary, Michelle, Kucinnich, and Joe Biden were also good.
I'm glad the Clinton Obama primary battle is over. Now Obama can run on President Clinton's record of success too, and he doesn't have to run against both political establishments. He can focus on what the Republicans have done since they seized all the wheels of power. Everything has gone wrong over the past 8 years, and because of that the Democrats have a platform that comes with empirical evidence. And if they do succeed in empowering the American people, they'd better stick to the high road, or we'll hold them accountable too.
the Democrats seem like the ones who can honestly understand the problems of the Middle-Class. They know what we're dealing with, and they have good solutions that will to get us there.
Their platform can be summarized in 2 points.
Rebuild the American Dream
restore America's standing in the world
The American dream is not based on what you can buy, it's not about having a house and a car and a pool. Everybody has their own dream, and the promise of America is that every child should have the opportunity to reach that dream if they try. This is not a society of classes, America is the place where those who work hard get ahead in life. That is a basic American value, and it has been under assault for the past 8 years.
Restoring America's standing in the world. "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." It is NOT in our self-interest to be isolated and despised by other countries. To be respected we need to lead by example, and quit yelling at other countries to do as we say, not as we do.
Here's the great side effect of this campaign; They are empowering the American people, building efficacy, and convincing us that if we work for it, we can create a better America together. That's powerful stuff, and it goes beyond just selling the Democratic party, it's bigger than that. It says Americans determine the course of our own country.
The one thing that's missing from the message so far...
Adopting a progressive platform is in America's self-interest.
We need and educated public so we can innovate better and faster than the rest of the world.
We need smart poor kids to have the chance to get out of the ghetto and put their great ideas to use for America.
We need renewable energy, because we know everyone is going to want it, and if we have the best product, made in America, then we win economically.
We need allies and international laws, to settle disagreements between nations. So we don't have to send our ambitious young people off to be killed, maimed, and mentally devastated. Our military people should be at home raising their families, instead of leaving them to worry night and day about your safety.
We need to end the War in Iraq, because it is bankrupting our country, as we borrow money to pay for a mistake.
We need universal healthcare, because at some point everybody needs medical attention, and nobody should lose their house because of a medical bill. Families should be able to focus on raising their kids. And not have to work two jobs just to afford for-profit health insurance.
We need to rebuild our infrastructure, because we don't want bridges to fall down while we drive over them, or levees to break and flood cities. The government has a job to do, and it would employ millions of Americans.
We need a strong middle class, because that's what drives our economy, and helps people realize their American Dream.
Americans are a proud people. We can accomplish anything. We're smart ambitious and innovative. We've been on the cutting edge many times in our history. We've invented incredible things, and achieved great progress. As a nation, we need to tap into that American spirit, and trust the American people. We need a government that believes in us and partners with us, instead of a selfish government that hides from us and deceives us.
If I were a Democrat I'd be appealing to the practical side, as well as the proud side of America.
We'll see what Barrack Obama says tonight. I liked Bill Clinton's speach the best so far, though Hillary, Michelle, Kucinnich, and Joe Biden were also good.
I'm glad the Clinton Obama primary battle is over. Now Obama can run on President Clinton's record of success too, and he doesn't have to run against both political establishments. He can focus on what the Republicans have done since they seized all the wheels of power. Everything has gone wrong over the past 8 years, and because of that the Democrats have a platform that comes with empirical evidence. And if they do succeed in empowering the American people, they'd better stick to the high road, or we'll hold them accountable too.
dcoffee - 08/29/08 10:14
I was in SUNY Fredonia, and my last year there was a big expense increase, and I remember a lot of grumbling about Pataki. I'm pretty offended that the Fed hasn't lowered interest rates on student loans though.
Libertad: I voted for Obama once, in the primary. And because of the stupid electoral college I know NYS is a Blue state, and I don't need to fear helping John McCain by voting for an Independent party. I view an Obama presidency as a bold step in the right direction, but it won't magically fix everything, people need to stay alert and involved to make sure the government makes the changes we need. He has a good platform with a lot of consensus, but I know it will be a lot tougher to work out the details in Washington. If we want any of these promises to come true, we need to fight for them, and call our congress people to make sure they vote the way we need them to. I guess I'd say I love Cynthia McKinney, and I always vote Independent Party, but Obama has a chance at my vote.
I was in SUNY Fredonia, and my last year there was a big expense increase, and I remember a lot of grumbling about Pataki. I'm pretty offended that the Fed hasn't lowered interest rates on student loans though.
Libertad: I voted for Obama once, in the primary. And because of the stupid electoral college I know NYS is a Blue state, and I don't need to fear helping John McCain by voting for an Independent party. I view an Obama presidency as a bold step in the right direction, but it won't magically fix everything, people need to stay alert and involved to make sure the government makes the changes we need. He has a good platform with a lot of consensus, but I know it will be a lot tougher to work out the details in Washington. If we want any of these promises to come true, we need to fight for them, and call our congress people to make sure they vote the way we need them to. I guess I'd say I love Cynthia McKinney, and I always vote Independent Party, but Obama has a chance at my vote.
jason - 08/29/08 09:49
While it's true that the trustees say how much tuition will increase, they still are subject to the limits which the state legislature will impose on them financially through state aid. The politicians still dictate what that amount will be.
So while trustees can say they want a 1000 increase, if the state doesn't give them the money they want to run the SUNY system they have to find another avenue, which was the case when I was in college. Anyone remember the explosion in fees in the late 90's?
While it's true that the trustees say how much tuition will increase, they still are subject to the limits which the state legislature will impose on them financially through state aid. The politicians still dictate what that amount will be.
So while trustees can say they want a 1000 increase, if the state doesn't give them the money they want to run the SUNY system they have to find another avenue, which was the case when I was in college. Anyone remember the explosion in fees in the late 90's?
libertad - 08/29/08 09:05
dcoffee--Does this journal reinforce your support for Mckinney or are you going back to Obama?
Josh-- consider the conservative influence on SUNY and how much tuition has gone up under Pataki's leadership.
"Both Mr. Cuomo and Mr. Pataki, like many governors, appointed like-minded trustees. Yet Mr. Cuomo's appointees fought with him to defend the university from cuts. Mr. Pataki's have not. He chose trustees who said they wanted to be change agents, not merely guardians of Mr. Rockefeller's SUNY." source :::link:::
dcoffee--Does this journal reinforce your support for Mckinney or are you going back to Obama?
Josh-- consider the conservative influence on SUNY and how much tuition has gone up under Pataki's leadership.
"Both Mr. Cuomo and Mr. Pataki, like many governors, appointed like-minded trustees. Yet Mr. Cuomo's appointees fought with him to defend the university from cuts. Mr. Pataki's have not. He chose trustees who said they wanted to be change agents, not merely guardians of Mr. Rockefeller's SUNY." source :::link:::
dcoffee - 08/28/08 16:30
Josh: Biden was very good, I've always liked him, everyone's got some flaws, but he's a genuine guy.
About the rising college costs, I found out this tidbit while researching refinancing my college loan. The interest rates on college loans have steadily gone up since I graduated, they're around 8% now. At a time when the other interest rates are dropping, and you need a college education more than ever, the federal government has in fact made it more costly to get a loan. People who don't have to borrow can be mad at the universities, but if you're like most people shrinking federal grants and higher interest rates are your biggest problem.
I hope democrats have the confidence to stick to their guns this time around, and take an example from their progressive base. And I hope the progressive base considers November the beginning of their movement instead of the culmination. I'd say the reason Democrats fold once elected is the corrupt election system and the influence of private dollars.
Jason: the bottom up idea is key. I give a hell yea to that one. I agree with that on many levels, including states rights, states should be a mini laboratory for policy testing. And from the perspective of American democracy in general. Nothing starts at the top.
I also think progressives are digging in for the long haul, finally. No election will solve our problems, it takes our effort, and the people can never take their eye off the government. and for me, participatory democracy is more important than any party or election.
Josh: Biden was very good, I've always liked him, everyone's got some flaws, but he's a genuine guy.
About the rising college costs, I found out this tidbit while researching refinancing my college loan. The interest rates on college loans have steadily gone up since I graduated, they're around 8% now. At a time when the other interest rates are dropping, and you need a college education more than ever, the federal government has in fact made it more costly to get a loan. People who don't have to borrow can be mad at the universities, but if you're like most people shrinking federal grants and higher interest rates are your biggest problem.
I hope democrats have the confidence to stick to their guns this time around, and take an example from their progressive base. And I hope the progressive base considers November the beginning of their movement instead of the culmination. I'd say the reason Democrats fold once elected is the corrupt election system and the influence of private dollars.
Jason: the bottom up idea is key. I give a hell yea to that one. I agree with that on many levels, including states rights, states should be a mini laboratory for policy testing. And from the perspective of American democracy in general. Nothing starts at the top.
I also think progressives are digging in for the long haul, finally. No election will solve our problems, it takes our effort, and the people can never take their eye off the government. and for me, participatory democracy is more important than any party or election.
jason - 08/28/08 15:05
Thanks D. You know what, I risk trouble at home for this, but there is something I have to admit I admire about the progressive movement, and this is something I think everyone can agree on as it is pretty easy to observe.
I am NOT talking about the politicians here, rather normal folks like you and I.
Progressives embrace the "bottom to top" view of how ideas should be put into action. They are eager to roll up their sleeves and work hard towards the goal of not only implementing their solutions, but also trying to get people to sway in their direction.
Conservatives, and I'm telling you it's one of the reasons I left the party, WILL NOT behave this way. No, if you are not on the wing, it isn't that they have to work harder to earn votes. They don't want to roll up their sleeves. They expect that they can do NOTHING, and that everyone else in the R umbrella has to kiss their ring and capitulate in every circumstance because they're just that fucking important. Screw that!!!
Thanks D. You know what, I risk trouble at home for this, but there is something I have to admit I admire about the progressive movement, and this is something I think everyone can agree on as it is pretty easy to observe.
I am NOT talking about the politicians here, rather normal folks like you and I.
Progressives embrace the "bottom to top" view of how ideas should be put into action. They are eager to roll up their sleeves and work hard towards the goal of not only implementing their solutions, but also trying to get people to sway in their direction.
Conservatives, and I'm telling you it's one of the reasons I left the party, WILL NOT behave this way. No, if you are not on the wing, it isn't that they have to work harder to earn votes. They don't want to roll up their sleeves. They expect that they can do NOTHING, and that everyone else in the R umbrella has to kiss their ring and capitulate in every circumstance because they're just that fucking important. Screw that!!!
joshua - 08/28/08 14:43
I thought Clinton was a stiff - I felt it was half-hearted. Biden though, he was a spectacle. He was a brilliant entertainer and drove home a lot of solid points. Biden is the only one with the guts and the cred to be able to attack John McCain on issues that Obama is weak on. My only nitpicking this time was his mentioning of rising college costs. Who is responsible for that? It sure as hell isn't the GOP or GWB! Don't make me use the "L" word referring to those who have administrated colleges for eons.
Otherwise though, looking at it from a broad perspective, I think the convention has been a success. It will be interesting to see what Barack Obama says - I'll be taking notes.
D you mention something I've read from you before - that progressives have to stand by their ideas. I don't think you can force the GOP to debate on progressive terms, ever... they don't have to and have never had to. On the other hand though, progressive politicians need to stick to their guns more. Say what you believe and stand behind it! I think people like yourself, and other regular folks who are progressives do stick with their guns but the politicians have not. I have an incredibly cynical reason why (when they do, they lose, which is why the only two-term Democrat in the last few decades was a centrist) but it is deeper than that. If progressives can't win this one, they never will.
I thought Clinton was a stiff - I felt it was half-hearted. Biden though, he was a spectacle. He was a brilliant entertainer and drove home a lot of solid points. Biden is the only one with the guts and the cred to be able to attack John McCain on issues that Obama is weak on. My only nitpicking this time was his mentioning of rising college costs. Who is responsible for that? It sure as hell isn't the GOP or GWB! Don't make me use the "L" word referring to those who have administrated colleges for eons.
Otherwise though, looking at it from a broad perspective, I think the convention has been a success. It will be interesting to see what Barack Obama says - I'll be taking notes.
D you mention something I've read from you before - that progressives have to stand by their ideas. I don't think you can force the GOP to debate on progressive terms, ever... they don't have to and have never had to. On the other hand though, progressive politicians need to stick to their guns more. Say what you believe and stand behind it! I think people like yourself, and other regular folks who are progressives do stick with their guns but the politicians have not. I have an incredibly cynical reason why (when they do, they lose, which is why the only two-term Democrat in the last few decades was a centrist) but it is deeper than that. If progressives can't win this one, they never will.
dcoffee - 08/28/08 14:11
Jason, you bring up a lot of good points. I think tonight you will hear a lot more specifics about what Barrack Obama would do as president. So far, there's been a lot of "I know what you're going through" Tonight I'm expecting a lot of "Here's how we're going to fix it".
I also understand that Obama has to build on the most popular elements of the Democratic platform. I still think progressives have to stand by their ideas, and make sure we define the debate, and force republicans to address our terms. But I also see that change is going to happen step by step. We try the ideas, succeed, and build on it next year. It's going to take dedication and time to get there. You can't really outlaw Health insurance companies overnight,or fix the election system quick. It's up to people to keep the pressure on, and it's up to politicians to build consensus and take the laws one step forward.
Jason, you bring up a lot of good points. I think tonight you will hear a lot more specifics about what Barrack Obama would do as president. So far, there's been a lot of "I know what you're going through" Tonight I'm expecting a lot of "Here's how we're going to fix it".
I also understand that Obama has to build on the most popular elements of the Democratic platform. I still think progressives have to stand by their ideas, and make sure we define the debate, and force republicans to address our terms. But I also see that change is going to happen step by step. We try the ideas, succeed, and build on it next year. It's going to take dedication and time to get there. You can't really outlaw Health insurance companies overnight,or fix the election system quick. It's up to people to keep the pressure on, and it's up to politicians to build consensus and take the laws one step forward.
jason - 08/28/08 13:19
In general I think the speeches I've seen have been good, at least as far as character witnesses are concerned. Democratics are experts at playing on emotions and tugging at heart strings. I've been entertained, and that isn't a criticism this time. I trust Biden more than I trust Obama, actually, when it comes to being a wise and prudent leader, but fresh blood is needed I suppose, and is more compatible with the party message.
The one criticism I heard on BBC Radio last night was that there hasn't been a whole lot of meat to chew on. It's been, oh, America is in trouble, America is terrible, McSame, 4 more years of Bush....ad nauseum. What about policy? I agree with this criticism, and I'm hopeful (probably foolishly so) that the king of soaring rhetoric will give us more when he speaks tonight.
I think that the Obama campaign is going to be only as Progressive as they believe is acceptable to moderates and independents who are going to decide the race. He has spoken many times about UHC, Iraq Withdrawal, Energy Independence, Infrastructure Development...things you've listed in your journal. There are elements of the progressive faction that are well represented.
However, Obama's campaign is savvy enough to know that running as an inflexible ideologue will result in failure. Not even the progressive vehicle for power, the Democratic Party, accepted the only "real" principled left winger Kucinich. He called himself the "center" of the party which turned out to be false. Clearly, the party and the nation don't want a hard core progressive, but that doesn't mean that the whole of the ideology will be scrapped. You win some and you lose some, and you fight on.
In general I think the speeches I've seen have been good, at least as far as character witnesses are concerned. Democratics are experts at playing on emotions and tugging at heart strings. I've been entertained, and that isn't a criticism this time. I trust Biden more than I trust Obama, actually, when it comes to being a wise and prudent leader, but fresh blood is needed I suppose, and is more compatible with the party message.
The one criticism I heard on BBC Radio last night was that there hasn't been a whole lot of meat to chew on. It's been, oh, America is in trouble, America is terrible, McSame, 4 more years of Bush....ad nauseum. What about policy? I agree with this criticism, and I'm hopeful (probably foolishly so) that the king of soaring rhetoric will give us more when he speaks tonight.
I think that the Obama campaign is going to be only as Progressive as they believe is acceptable to moderates and independents who are going to decide the race. He has spoken many times about UHC, Iraq Withdrawal, Energy Independence, Infrastructure Development...things you've listed in your journal. There are elements of the progressive faction that are well represented.
However, Obama's campaign is savvy enough to know that running as an inflexible ideologue will result in failure. Not even the progressive vehicle for power, the Democratic Party, accepted the only "real" principled left winger Kucinich. He called himself the "center" of the party which turned out to be false. Clearly, the party and the nation don't want a hard core progressive, but that doesn't mean that the whole of the ideology will be scrapped. You win some and you lose some, and you fight on.
08/22/2008 09:26 #45408
Sick of the Swing VotersCategory: politics
I can't take it anymore. Seems like the Obama Campaign is resorting to conventional wisdom, moving to the center, compromising, watching the polls, and changing his position to appease the schmucks who make up their minds based on TV adds.
Telling people what they want to hear will fuck you over. You can't change the game of politics, without changing the game of presidential campaigning. Being honest and truthful isn't enough. Registering millions of new voters isn't enough. Fighting the smears isn't enough.
Here's the problem, The largest voting block in America IS THE ONE THAT STAYS FUCKING HOME! It's the young voters and the cynics. How did Obama get the nomination? By inspiring millions of people to volunteer their time. By making people feel like they could be part of the solution. Making us feel like we had the power to take the country back. The new generation of voters is ready to see some serious change in this country, and we're willing to do it our fucking selves. Those are the people you need.
Oh sure, you can register a million new voters, but come election day, they need to be passionate about their candidate, not just scared of the other guy. Or else they won't bother.
I don't know who Obama is talking to but he's getting some bad advice. Remember the Gas Tax holiday? Yea, he called it a sham, and got enough respect to bounce over Clinton. But today we're talking about Offshore Drilling, and suddenly Obama is an appeaser. The Oil Comapnies have leases to 100 million acres of land, 33 million of which are offshore But they aren't drilling because they make more money when supply is tight. Force McCain to address that question, are you with the Oil Companies or with the American people? But instead Obama wimps out, drilling should be part of the energy formula blah blah... If the oil companies still have lands where they can get oil they don't need more, we can talk about that when they've used what they already have. Taking on the oil companies makes you a hero, thanks for blowing that one.
Add the FISA bill to the list of wimp-outs, and the bullish rhetoric toward Iran. And you start to look like the same old same old. That doesn't get my vote, it doesn't get me to volunteer to phonebank from my home, or pick up a friend on the way to the polling booth, or to sit at a table on campus to register voters. And it won't get my father in-law back to Pennsylvania as a campaign volunteer either. Now you start to see why the ambiguous middle doesn't matter.
Me, you think I'll vote for him anyway, I'm a New York Democrat now, so why not take my vote as a given, and start campaigning for the center. Actually no, I'm one of those crazy motherfuckers who will vote for Cynthia McKinney just to prove a point. Wasting my vote? Yea right, she will appreciate it more than the chosen two. And I'll keep voting with my finger in the air until I get my third party.
Telling people what they want to hear will fuck you over. You can't change the game of politics, without changing the game of presidential campaigning. Being honest and truthful isn't enough. Registering millions of new voters isn't enough. Fighting the smears isn't enough.
Here's the problem, The largest voting block in America IS THE ONE THAT STAYS FUCKING HOME! It's the young voters and the cynics. How did Obama get the nomination? By inspiring millions of people to volunteer their time. By making people feel like they could be part of the solution. Making us feel like we had the power to take the country back. The new generation of voters is ready to see some serious change in this country, and we're willing to do it our fucking selves. Those are the people you need.
Oh sure, you can register a million new voters, but come election day, they need to be passionate about their candidate, not just scared of the other guy. Or else they won't bother.
I don't know who Obama is talking to but he's getting some bad advice. Remember the Gas Tax holiday? Yea, he called it a sham, and got enough respect to bounce over Clinton. But today we're talking about Offshore Drilling, and suddenly Obama is an appeaser. The Oil Comapnies have leases to 100 million acres of land, 33 million of which are offshore But they aren't drilling because they make more money when supply is tight. Force McCain to address that question, are you with the Oil Companies or with the American people? But instead Obama wimps out, drilling should be part of the energy formula blah blah... If the oil companies still have lands where they can get oil they don't need more, we can talk about that when they've used what they already have. Taking on the oil companies makes you a hero, thanks for blowing that one.
Add the FISA bill to the list of wimp-outs, and the bullish rhetoric toward Iran. And you start to look like the same old same old. That doesn't get my vote, it doesn't get me to volunteer to phonebank from my home, or pick up a friend on the way to the polling booth, or to sit at a table on campus to register voters. And it won't get my father in-law back to Pennsylvania as a campaign volunteer either. Now you start to see why the ambiguous middle doesn't matter.
Me, you think I'll vote for him anyway, I'm a New York Democrat now, so why not take my vote as a given, and start campaigning for the center. Actually no, I'm one of those crazy motherfuckers who will vote for Cynthia McKinney just to prove a point. Wasting my vote? Yea right, she will appreciate it more than the chosen two. And I'll keep voting with my finger in the air until I get my third party.
dcoffee - 08/22/08 18:07
Josh The studies that I cited are compiled by Liberal outlets, but the data and the surveys is as objective as possible. This is public information, we used the same stuff in my political science classes, it's not like any of those "Fox news polls", I've seen some of those questions, very leading.
You are right that elections are much more accurate than polls at showing American preferences. But what about the people who don't vote, I have many friends who I cannot convince to go out and vote, they are straight up cynical about the whole system. I want the democrats, or somebody, to connect with that group. What are their issues?
Josh The studies that I cited are compiled by Liberal outlets, but the data and the surveys is as objective as possible. This is public information, we used the same stuff in my political science classes, it's not like any of those "Fox news polls", I've seen some of those questions, very leading.
You are right that elections are much more accurate than polls at showing American preferences. But what about the people who don't vote, I have many friends who I cannot convince to go out and vote, they are straight up cynical about the whole system. I want the democrats, or somebody, to connect with that group. What are their issues?
joshua - 08/22/08 15:23
I would suggest that national elections bear out the mood of the electorate over the years in the best fashion. Democrats have always been more effective locally than they have been nationally, and the opposite is the case for Republicans. You can imagine what I think about The Nation and Media Matters, David. Do you want me to start quoting polls from The Weekly Standard? =P
I don't think progressives can blame Republicans for their lack of effectiveness. Liberals have been bad at the political game for a long time - in 2004 I heard Lewis Black rip a 10-minute comedy piece on the subject for crying out loud. There is a kernal of truth to what you are saying, but what I'd suggest is that progressives have to do a better job of defining their positions. Just don't blame the electorate when they don't agree with you! Obama is watering it down now, which you've talked about. You are asking why - I am telling you that it is because he knows the aggressive progressive agenda you are talking about is not palatable to the American middle class that he needs to win. McCain is crushing him in the middle right now. The people aren't stupid - they know what Barack Obama stands for. Liberals for a long time have never given voters credit for thinking for themselves because, well, they lose all the time.
(e:drew) - there was nothing unconstitutional about that bill. In fact the federal version (The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002) was identical and passed with no complaint from the likes of NARAL, Ted Kennedy and other staunch pro-choice advocates. At the time Obama complained about the lack of a "neutrality clause" - when it was added he voted down the bill anyway. Incidentally it was the neutrality clause (it guaranteed that the new act wouldn't affect erosion of the right to an abortion) that guaranteed broad support. This is why it is so shocking - every pro-abortion Senator in Congress voted for a bill identical to that which Obama voted down.
When Obama ran for Senate he claimed that he voted it down because it lacked the neutrality clause. It was a lie - anyone can see in the record that the language was included in 2001 and he voted it down in three straight sessions going into 2003. You can see why it is a point of comedy for me when the Obammunists think this is a smear.
Anyway, since linking to partisan sources is now credible (only teasing, D) here is an article on the subject - :::link:::
I would suggest that national elections bear out the mood of the electorate over the years in the best fashion. Democrats have always been more effective locally than they have been nationally, and the opposite is the case for Republicans. You can imagine what I think about The Nation and Media Matters, David. Do you want me to start quoting polls from The Weekly Standard? =P
I don't think progressives can blame Republicans for their lack of effectiveness. Liberals have been bad at the political game for a long time - in 2004 I heard Lewis Black rip a 10-minute comedy piece on the subject for crying out loud. There is a kernal of truth to what you are saying, but what I'd suggest is that progressives have to do a better job of defining their positions. Just don't blame the electorate when they don't agree with you! Obama is watering it down now, which you've talked about. You are asking why - I am telling you that it is because he knows the aggressive progressive agenda you are talking about is not palatable to the American middle class that he needs to win. McCain is crushing him in the middle right now. The people aren't stupid - they know what Barack Obama stands for. Liberals for a long time have never given voters credit for thinking for themselves because, well, they lose all the time.
(e:drew) - there was nothing unconstitutional about that bill. In fact the federal version (The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002) was identical and passed with no complaint from the likes of NARAL, Ted Kennedy and other staunch pro-choice advocates. At the time Obama complained about the lack of a "neutrality clause" - when it was added he voted down the bill anyway. Incidentally it was the neutrality clause (it guaranteed that the new act wouldn't affect erosion of the right to an abortion) that guaranteed broad support. This is why it is so shocking - every pro-abortion Senator in Congress voted for a bill identical to that which Obama voted down.
When Obama ran for Senate he claimed that he voted it down because it lacked the neutrality clause. It was a lie - anyone can see in the record that the language was included in 2001 and he voted it down in three straight sessions going into 2003. You can see why it is a point of comedy for me when the Obammunists think this is a smear.
Anyway, since linking to partisan sources is now credible (only teasing, D) here is an article on the subject - :::link:::
dcoffee - 08/22/08 15:19
Sorry to ramble so much, but let me get back to this, since I don't feel like like we can define how conservative or liberal America is anyway.
When you drift toward the center you end up with a confused platform, and you don't inspire people to work hard for your campaign. Your supporters start to wonder if you really support their issue or not. Democratic campaigns have failed time and again because of their focus on the center. The republican base is inspired to support their candidate, and they bring friends to the pols. The Democratic base is sitting at home thinking that no matter how they vote nothing will change. That is the biggest problem for democrats, supporters stay home, or if you're like me, you stick to your ideals and vote Green. Democrats need people like me, and my Father-in-law if they expect to win, ever.
Sorry to ramble so much, but let me get back to this, since I don't feel like like we can define how conservative or liberal America is anyway.
When you drift toward the center you end up with a confused platform, and you don't inspire people to work hard for your campaign. Your supporters start to wonder if you really support their issue or not. Democratic campaigns have failed time and again because of their focus on the center. The republican base is inspired to support their candidate, and they bring friends to the pols. The Democratic base is sitting at home thinking that no matter how they vote nothing will change. That is the biggest problem for democrats, supporters stay home, or if you're like me, you stick to your ideals and vote Green. Democrats need people like me, and my Father-in-law if they expect to win, ever.
drew - 08/22/08 14:58
right on, d
right on, d
drew - 08/22/08 14:57
The vote was against an unnecessary, unconstitutional bill. Obama would have been wise to simply not vote, but you can hardly use this to say he was in favor of infanticide. He's against bad legislation.
The vote was against an unnecessary, unconstitutional bill. Obama would have been wise to simply not vote, but you can hardly use this to say he was in favor of infanticide. He's against bad legislation.
dcoffee - 08/22/08 14:45
I'd say the problem is that progressive values have been defined by the republicans running against them. They have been very good at creating stereotypes, coming up with catch phrases like "socialized medicine" and otherwise demonizing progressive issues. Progressives haven't had a clear platform for many years. It's not that Americans don't agree with progressives, they just don't know what we stand for. But Americans in general are progressive, I know I have to qualify that statement so.. Research/numbers :::link::: :::link::: of course it's in the liberal press but you can still read the poll questions and see numbers.
I'd say the problem is that progressive values have been defined by the republicans running against them. They have been very good at creating stereotypes, coming up with catch phrases like "socialized medicine" and otherwise demonizing progressive issues. Progressives haven't had a clear platform for many years. It's not that Americans don't agree with progressives, they just don't know what we stand for. But Americans in general are progressive, I know I have to qualify that statement so.. Research/numbers :::link::: :::link::: of course it's in the liberal press but you can still read the poll questions and see numbers.
joshua - 08/22/08 14:24
"No I don't want to give Bush my tax money, he will blow it on Halliburton." D that is ridiculous!
You are correct that Republicans have never had to bow to the center to win. That is because they don't have to - Democrats could never copy the strategy and expect to win. The reason is because conservative politics have been tried and tested, and win national elections regularly. Progressive politics do not. It could be argued that middle America relates to traditionalist values far more than they relate to "San Francisco" values. Actually, I'll go ahead and say that I'd wager that is true.
(e:drew) - do you really believe that the infanticide vote should be disregarded? They are talking about killing babies that survive abortion. He voted against a bill that would have stopped such a practice in Illinois.
:::link:::
Really. What about all of this is so misleading - did me make the vote or not? If anything is a red herring it is the neutrality clause! All of this looks fairly devastating.
"No I don't want to give Bush my tax money, he will blow it on Halliburton." D that is ridiculous!
You are correct that Republicans have never had to bow to the center to win. That is because they don't have to - Democrats could never copy the strategy and expect to win. The reason is because conservative politics have been tried and tested, and win national elections regularly. Progressive politics do not. It could be argued that middle America relates to traditionalist values far more than they relate to "San Francisco" values. Actually, I'll go ahead and say that I'd wager that is true.
(e:drew) - do you really believe that the infanticide vote should be disregarded? They are talking about killing babies that survive abortion. He voted against a bill that would have stopped such a practice in Illinois.
:::link:::
Really. What about all of this is so misleading - did me make the vote or not? If anything is a red herring it is the neutrality clause! All of this looks fairly devastating.
drew - 08/22/08 13:49
That "infanticide" vote is a pure red herring.
That "infanticide" vote is a pure red herring.
dcoffee - 08/22/08 13:48
Oh, I forgot one, "Tax = bad" "small government = good" The dominant logic is that the government is the problem. People forget that a competent and transparent government can actually solve problems, and spend our collective resources wisely. The New Deal programs are the only thing keeping Americans comfortable enough so we don't start rioting in the streets.
No I don't want to give Bush my tax money, he will blow it on Halliburton. But I think Americans would have gladly accepted a tax increase to pay for the war. Americans will give money to support worthy causes.
Oh, I forgot one, "Tax = bad" "small government = good" The dominant logic is that the government is the problem. People forget that a competent and transparent government can actually solve problems, and spend our collective resources wisely. The New Deal programs are the only thing keeping Americans comfortable enough so we don't start rioting in the streets.
No I don't want to give Bush my tax money, he will blow it on Halliburton. But I think Americans would have gladly accepted a tax increase to pay for the war. Americans will give money to support worthy causes.
dcoffee - 08/22/08 13:37
Republicans don't win elections by appeasing the center. Let's take 2004 Bush and Kerry. Did Bush wiggle at all on Gay Marriage, the War, Tax Cuts for big Business, Abortion, Healthcare? He didn't wiggle, he stuck to the issues of his supporters, and they worked hard for him. Josh you're exactly right on this, Obama does need to "convince middle America". But the term is "Convince them", not appease them, cause then you look like you either don't have faith in your own ideas, or you just don't know what the hell you're doing. Remember, Kerry was the flip-flopper.
You can convince middle America that you have the best answer, but you don't do it by suddenly watering down your idea and meeting your opponent halfway. Sure you have to do that in the Senate, but in a campaign you need to defend your own agenda, and make your opponent justify why they oppose your good ideas.
I'd say, the Republicans have gotten this far by motivating their core supporters based on hot button wedge issues. Not by drifting to the center. That's why the pundit declared "center" has moved so far toward republican dogma.
"tax cuts for big business creates jobs" "military muscle is the only way to defend ourselves" "the market will naturally take care of global warming" "Free market healthcare is the best in the world"
Sounds like the Right has done a better job of telling the center what to believe. In 2004 Democrats didn't even have a platform outside of abortion and gay marriage, Democrats need do get their populism back.
Republicans don't win elections by appeasing the center. Let's take 2004 Bush and Kerry. Did Bush wiggle at all on Gay Marriage, the War, Tax Cuts for big Business, Abortion, Healthcare? He didn't wiggle, he stuck to the issues of his supporters, and they worked hard for him. Josh you're exactly right on this, Obama does need to "convince middle America". But the term is "Convince them", not appease them, cause then you look like you either don't have faith in your own ideas, or you just don't know what the hell you're doing. Remember, Kerry was the flip-flopper.
You can convince middle America that you have the best answer, but you don't do it by suddenly watering down your idea and meeting your opponent halfway. Sure you have to do that in the Senate, but in a campaign you need to defend your own agenda, and make your opponent justify why they oppose your good ideas.
I'd say, the Republicans have gotten this far by motivating their core supporters based on hot button wedge issues. Not by drifting to the center. That's why the pundit declared "center" has moved so far toward republican dogma.
"tax cuts for big business creates jobs" "military muscle is the only way to defend ourselves" "the market will naturally take care of global warming" "Free market healthcare is the best in the world"
Sounds like the Right has done a better job of telling the center what to believe. In 2004 Democrats didn't even have a platform outside of abortion and gay marriage, Democrats need do get their populism back.
joshua - 08/22/08 13:20
It is an interesting strategy but in my view it is a loser in a general election. In primaries progressives can win all day long doing that, particularly because of the financial clout that liberal organizations and the blogosphere now wield. I truly believe that the bigwigs fear DailyKos, which is why they work so hard to keep them happy. There is some shame in that, though - if you look at the comments left by many of the readers of the site some of these people are subhuman.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - Obama will not win without winning the center, particularly this year and particularly because he is so far behind McCain in centrist core issues. Independents are going to choose the President this time around, but I don't think progressives should worry too much about what Obama is saying. Take a look at his voting record (allow me to snicker for a second - take a look at that infanticide legislation in ILL!) and you'll see that progressives have nothing to worry about. National Journal rated him the most liberal senator. He is not a centrist, but he has to convince independent voters that he's trustworthy. He's losing that battle at the moment.
It is an interesting strategy but in my view it is a loser in a general election. In primaries progressives can win all day long doing that, particularly because of the financial clout that liberal organizations and the blogosphere now wield. I truly believe that the bigwigs fear DailyKos, which is why they work so hard to keep them happy. There is some shame in that, though - if you look at the comments left by many of the readers of the site some of these people are subhuman.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - Obama will not win without winning the center, particularly this year and particularly because he is so far behind McCain in centrist core issues. Independents are going to choose the President this time around, but I don't think progressives should worry too much about what Obama is saying. Take a look at his voting record (allow me to snicker for a second - take a look at that infanticide legislation in ILL!) and you'll see that progressives have nothing to worry about. National Journal rated him the most liberal senator. He is not a centrist, but he has to convince independent voters that he's trustworthy. He's losing that battle at the moment.
drew - 08/22/08 13:02
oops. I guess I am with DCoffee, not ajay.
oops. I guess I am with DCoffee, not ajay.
drew - 08/22/08 13:01
I'm with ajay in that a politician doesn't necessarily have to move to the center if he/she can register/get out the many people who don't vote.
This is a difficult and unconventional strategy, but it is the one that won Obama the primary. I wish he had chosen to stick with it in the general election.
I'm with ajay in that a politician doesn't necessarily have to move to the center if he/she can register/get out the many people who don't vote.
This is a difficult and unconventional strategy, but it is the one that won Obama the primary. I wish he had chosen to stick with it in the general election.
paul - 08/22/08 12:15
I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you.
ajay - 08/22/08 11:39
(e:dcoffee) , from what I've heard, there's a hardcore block of (who else but) Republican congressmen who are pro-drilling. They will not accept any clean-energy initiative unless there's more drilling.
So the choices are: throw them a bone and get them to go along, or do nothing.
Obama is willing to throw them a bone if they'll agree to some massive investment in clean energy.
Of course, the real blame lies with the fucking retards who continue to vote these assholes into office based on the "ooohh... the terrrurists are gonna git us!" argument.
Vote on policies and ideas, people. Not on the label "Republican" or "Democrat".
(e:dcoffee) , from what I've heard, there's a hardcore block of (who else but) Republican congressmen who are pro-drilling. They will not accept any clean-energy initiative unless there's more drilling.
So the choices are: throw them a bone and get them to go along, or do nothing.
Obama is willing to throw them a bone if they'll agree to some massive investment in clean energy.
Of course, the real blame lies with the fucking retards who continue to vote these assholes into office based on the "ooohh... the terrrurists are gonna git us!" argument.
Vote on policies and ideas, people. Not on the label "Republican" or "Democrat".
joshua - 08/22/08 11:26
D -
Obama is moving to the center because he has to. He needs to convince middle America, not you! Swing voters will decide the election and I think the left, once again, has generally overestimated the popularity of progressive politics. I'd hang in there and not worry if I were you. We all know if he gets elected he'll throw middle America under the bus and pursue all the liberal policies that attracted you to him in the first place.
D -
Obama is moving to the center because he has to. He needs to convince middle America, not you! Swing voters will decide the election and I think the left, once again, has generally overestimated the popularity of progressive politics. I'd hang in there and not worry if I were you. We all know if he gets elected he'll throw middle America under the bus and pursue all the liberal policies that attracted you to him in the first place.
mrmike - 08/22/08 10:36
The zingers have been always been the case of late. None of what we've heard so far in the four years of campaigning (or so it seems) is going to figure into the election which is sad. You want more than sound bites.You want to believe in some hope, that there is some reason it won't be the same old, same old. Make you want to volunteer where the election will matter.
The zingers have been always been the case of late. None of what we've heard so far in the four years of campaigning (or so it seems) is going to figure into the election which is sad. You want more than sound bites.You want to believe in some hope, that there is some reason it won't be the same old, same old. Make you want to volunteer where the election will matter.
james - 08/22/08 09:49
I have to say, i am disappointed with his post-primary performance. It is such a different game though. There is almost no discussion of policy and it seems like a contest of who can spin the best zinger. booo.
I have to say, i am disappointed with his post-primary performance. It is such a different game though. There is almost no discussion of policy and it seems like a contest of who can spin the best zinger. booo.
08/26/2008 13:42 #45460
Part 3 the ReceptionCategory: life
Wedding Part 3: Finally the reception.
The ceremony was about an hour and a half, then we did family photos for about an hour.
Me and my two girls
M and Brother, sporting his kilt. Yea, he's about 6'4"
My Fam
(e:mmtornow) Fam, notice the dog, we took him on the honeymoon too.
We missed cocktail hour, came back got a drink and then we were introduced.
The Tent
Invitation and Coffee Party Favors. I designed the invitation, seating chart and a bunch of stuff.
The Seating Chart
Officially introduced.
had a Vegetarian dinner, Lasagna! Veggies straight out of Dad's garden, and fresh bread. It was really good
The Cake. Funny thing is, we had no idea what the cake looked like. They brought it out, we moved the leaves, and cut it. Luckily the photographer got a picture for us so we could actually look at it.
It was Carrot Cake, made by a friend of the family from scratch, SO friggen tasty. We actually didn't really taste the cake till the next day either, we just had that bite on the plate here.
Oh yea, I had poison Ivy the whole time. We came up a week before the wedding to do some landscaping, there was poison ivy in the garden. I had the cream in my pocket the whole day.
Old School crew
Kenny's Speech
It was a really nice speech, Long enough to be meaningful, and touching for everyone, but not too long, not written down, and he was pretty nervous, needed some moral support from Scott, and a few drinks to get ready. It went something like this, "I've known David for a long time, and he's always been there for me...." Then he gave us both a hug, and spilled his drink all over the dance floor.
So I got a napkin and said, 'don't worry Kenny, I'm here for you man, I got your back'.
Our First Dance.
We danced to Elvis, I can't help falling in love with you. We listened to at least 50 potential first dance songs, we wanted to do Frank Sinatra or Coldplay, but this song just fit best with our story.
Dancing with Mom. We danced to Stevie Wonder, Sunshine of my Life. It was fun, my mom likes to dance.
M and Dad danced to Fleetwood Mac, Landslide. Cool song, her dad never dances, so it was a big joke getting him out on the dancefloor. Oh, and he went inside and changed into shorts after dinner, so we had to get him back into his brand new one and only suit before dancing. But he rocked the siut for the rest of the night.
View from the Tent
The Older Cousins Group
Yes, I'm dancing with my camera on, so what :)
Conga Line! I'll take that over the electric slide any day. I've been to enough weddings that when the DJ played the right song I started to Conga. It wasn't even the usual 'feelin hot hot hot' song. Fun Times
The Conga Line gets everyone on the dancefloor! I circled everyone up just in time.
Molly was on the Dancefloor 100% of the time, she only missed one song to go out to the pond for the reflection shot.
Dad in the Background Rocking out.
Candlelit Reflection in the pond
M and brother spinning
Dad was having a good ol time, we were totally surprised to see him anywhere near the dancefloor.
Dog Joins party, at about 9:30
I'm thinking the song might have been Old Time Rock and Roll. But this just makes it official, we've made it to the drunken silly part of the night. Not every wedding gets to that stage, actually some weddings start silly and drunk before the ceremony :).
The setting, on the pond, some people moved chairs around and made themselves at home next to the water. It was a great spot.
Fireworks for the end, Uncle Bob likes fireworks.
2:30am everyone left is sitting around the fire, with kegs nearby. Dad finally decides to call it a night. M still has flowers in her hair.
3:30am, M keeps talking about seeing the sun rise, I think she doesn't want it to end. The day went so well, who wants to end it. M Brother and I are the last 3 standing.
Dawn came about 5:30am, and in the light we noticed that the place was a mess! So we tidied up a bit before heading up to the cupola on top of the barn for a view of the sunrise.
Last Photo, Molly and I heading to bed at Dawn, Brother was inside doing dishes or something. Time to get some shuteye before heading east to the woods.
We enjoyed every minute.
The ceremony was about an hour and a half, then we did family photos for about an hour.
Me and my two girls
M and Brother, sporting his kilt. Yea, he's about 6'4"
My Fam
(e:mmtornow) Fam, notice the dog, we took him on the honeymoon too.
We missed cocktail hour, came back got a drink and then we were introduced.
The Tent
Invitation and Coffee Party Favors. I designed the invitation, seating chart and a bunch of stuff.
The Seating Chart
Officially introduced.
had a Vegetarian dinner, Lasagna! Veggies straight out of Dad's garden, and fresh bread. It was really good
The Cake. Funny thing is, we had no idea what the cake looked like. They brought it out, we moved the leaves, and cut it. Luckily the photographer got a picture for us so we could actually look at it.
It was Carrot Cake, made by a friend of the family from scratch, SO friggen tasty. We actually didn't really taste the cake till the next day either, we just had that bite on the plate here.
Oh yea, I had poison Ivy the whole time. We came up a week before the wedding to do some landscaping, there was poison ivy in the garden. I had the cream in my pocket the whole day.
Old School crew
Kenny's Speech
It was a really nice speech, Long enough to be meaningful, and touching for everyone, but not too long, not written down, and he was pretty nervous, needed some moral support from Scott, and a few drinks to get ready. It went something like this, "I've known David for a long time, and he's always been there for me...." Then he gave us both a hug, and spilled his drink all over the dance floor.
So I got a napkin and said, 'don't worry Kenny, I'm here for you man, I got your back'.
Our First Dance.
We danced to Elvis, I can't help falling in love with you. We listened to at least 50 potential first dance songs, we wanted to do Frank Sinatra or Coldplay, but this song just fit best with our story.
Dancing with Mom. We danced to Stevie Wonder, Sunshine of my Life. It was fun, my mom likes to dance.
M and Dad danced to Fleetwood Mac, Landslide. Cool song, her dad never dances, so it was a big joke getting him out on the dancefloor. Oh, and he went inside and changed into shorts after dinner, so we had to get him back into his brand new one and only suit before dancing. But he rocked the siut for the rest of the night.
View from the Tent
The Older Cousins Group
Yes, I'm dancing with my camera on, so what :)
Conga Line! I'll take that over the electric slide any day. I've been to enough weddings that when the DJ played the right song I started to Conga. It wasn't even the usual 'feelin hot hot hot' song. Fun Times
The Conga Line gets everyone on the dancefloor! I circled everyone up just in time.
Molly was on the Dancefloor 100% of the time, she only missed one song to go out to the pond for the reflection shot.
Dad in the Background Rocking out.
Candlelit Reflection in the pond
M and brother spinning
Dad was having a good ol time, we were totally surprised to see him anywhere near the dancefloor.
Dog Joins party, at about 9:30
I'm thinking the song might have been Old Time Rock and Roll. But this just makes it official, we've made it to the drunken silly part of the night. Not every wedding gets to that stage, actually some weddings start silly and drunk before the ceremony :).
The setting, on the pond, some people moved chairs around and made themselves at home next to the water. It was a great spot.
Fireworks for the end, Uncle Bob likes fireworks.
2:30am everyone left is sitting around the fire, with kegs nearby. Dad finally decides to call it a night. M still has flowers in her hair.
3:30am, M keeps talking about seeing the sun rise, I think she doesn't want it to end. The day went so well, who wants to end it. M Brother and I are the last 3 standing.
Dawn came about 5:30am, and in the light we noticed that the place was a mess! So we tidied up a bit before heading up to the cupola on top of the barn for a view of the sunrise.
Last Photo, Molly and I heading to bed at Dawn, Brother was inside doing dishes or something. Time to get some shuteye before heading east to the woods.
We enjoyed every minute.
dcoffee - 08/27/08 08:59
It was organic fair trade coffee of course :) "Deans Beans" Birdwatchers blend. We taste tested some before we bought 175 :)
It was organic fair trade coffee of course :) "Deans Beans" Birdwatchers blend. We taste tested some before we bought 175 :)
tinypliny - 08/27/08 08:18
Thanks for sharing, once again! The photos are so perfect! What a COOL reception!! I love that picture of (e:mmtornow) and her brother spinning. It's so funny and sweet. The invites and chart are so apt. They go beautifully with the wedding theme - the tree of life. Just out of curiosity, what kind of coffee did you guys give out? Nice concept! :)
Thanks for sharing, once again! The photos are so perfect! What a COOL reception!! I love that picture of (e:mmtornow) and her brother spinning. It's so funny and sweet. The invites and chart are so apt. They go beautifully with the wedding theme - the tree of life. Just out of curiosity, what kind of coffee did you guys give out? Nice concept! :)
metalpeter - 08/26/08 18:26
It looks like it was a great time, I love how the floor in the tent looks, oh yeah and Bonfires are all ways a good time.
It looks like it was a great time, I love how the floor in the tent looks, oh yeah and Bonfires are all ways a good time.
dcoffee - 08/26/08 16:19
Aww man, I never heard the U2 cover, there's a UB40 cover or something that's not very good. Sorry no bachelor party, my best man was in Chicago with the Navy until the day of the wedding. You wouldn't find any strippers there anyway ;)
Aww man, I never heard the U2 cover, there's a UB40 cover or something that's not very good. Sorry no bachelor party, my best man was in Chicago with the Navy until the day of the wedding. You wouldn't find any strippers there anyway ;)
carolinian - 08/26/08 15:25
When do we get to see the batchelor party pics? ;)
When do we get to see the batchelor party pics? ;)
drew - 08/26/08 14:53
Great pics. And your song choice for a first dance was good, too (although I would have used u2's cover of said song. It's awesome.)
Great pics. And your song choice for a first dance was good, too (although I would have used u2's cover of said song. It's awesome.)
joshua - 08/26/08 14:42
Well done! This is one of the more personal ceremonies I've ever seen.
Well done! This is one of the more personal ceremonies I've ever seen.
mrmike - 08/26/08 14:17
Very nice, looks like a terrific time.
Very nice, looks like a terrific time.
08/16/2008 18:26 #45343
new kittensCategory: life
Well, I wanted to upload some pictures from the reception and honeymoon first, but I can't help moving on to our new kitties.
We got them as a wedding present from our neighbor Ed. We had two cats but they both passed away over the past year or so. He used to babysit them when we went on vacation, he's like the uncle who feeds your kids candy and sends them home all wired on sugar.
We got our two kittens from the SPCA after we came home from our honeymoon. They are sisters from the same litter, born as strays in north east buffalo.
This is Ally, she's the fuzzy cuddly one. she likes to purr and dig her little nose into your arm.
This is Moosewood the silly crazy one. She likes to jump on your lap and rub her cheeks on your face.
during the day they spend much of their time trying to get my attention while I'm trying to work.
Here's a few more photos.
Enjoy!
We got them as a wedding present from our neighbor Ed. We had two cats but they both passed away over the past year or so. He used to babysit them when we went on vacation, he's like the uncle who feeds your kids candy and sends them home all wired on sugar.
We got our two kittens from the SPCA after we came home from our honeymoon. They are sisters from the same litter, born as strays in north east buffalo.
This is Ally, she's the fuzzy cuddly one. she likes to purr and dig her little nose into your arm.
This is Moosewood the silly crazy one. She likes to jump on your lap and rub her cheeks on your face.
during the day they spend much of their time trying to get my attention while I'm trying to work.
Here's a few more photos.
Missing Image ;(
Enjoy!
metalpeter - 08/17/08 11:28
Very nice shots cute little kittens. Yes lots of cats do need lots of attention but it shouldn't be to much since they have each other.
Very nice shots cute little kittens. Yes lots of cats do need lots of attention but it shouldn't be to much since they have each other.
tinypliny - 08/17/08 00:35
Pretty Kittens. :)
Pretty Kittens. :)
theecarey - 08/16/08 23:52
awhhh, kitties make my brain turn into a pile of mush. They seem awesome and already at home. Thanks for sharing the cuteness!
awhhh, kitties make my brain turn into a pile of mush. They seem awesome and already at home. Thanks for sharing the cuteness!
libertad - 08/16/08 22:10
How precious!
How precious!
jim - 08/16/08 18:47
KITTIES
KITTIES
(e:joshua) trying to describe "progressive politics" is like a meat eater trying to explain vegetarianism.
How about discussing McInsane's policies, (e:joshua) ? Oh right, since it's more of The Same, we don't have to get any specifics; we've seen them in action over the last 8 years. Lol....
It was an awesome speech,very fitting for the 45 anniversary of "The Dream". This is an awesome time to be an American.
I think the speech was as specific as it could be without putting people to sleep. If you want specifics, he has huge detailed documents on his website, 50 pages here, 20 pages there for specific proposals.
I think Obama was firm in his convictions, and didn't compromise to Republican terms. His platform is different than mine, but he didn't bend himself to fit the bogus polls or to appease people. And in that way, he stuck to his guns. He just sees where people are coming from and tries to build consensus and move forward. That is something I value.
Obama's position is the one that most Americans can agree on. Government serves a purpose for us, and to exist government needs taxes. That tax structure should help the middle class grow, and provide smart kids with a chance to make something out of their lives and contribute to America. It's not about income redistribution, it's about America being stronger when we work together.
That AP article is crap. He mentioned just about as many specifics as you could in such a short time. The article even says as much past the lede. The article's title does not match its contents.
The Republicans would call him vaporous if he just talked about ideals, and academic if he spent all his time on minutia of details. He hit just the right balance between the two.
And, that article says that saying "We all put our country first" is a sharp attack on McCain - I mean, really? Really? If that's sharp then Republicans are wusses.
You can't call it a summary because it isn't! =P
You might find this article interesting, or perhaps enraging. From the AP - Obama speech still lacked specifics - :::link:::
This isn't progressive politics we saw last night. Compromises on gun control? Compromises on abortion? I don't think so! When I (and you) said that progressives need to stick to their guns, this isn't what either of us had in mind. Progressives have never compromised on core beliefs. Does anybody really believe that Obama would support meaningful limitations on abortion? The problem with Obama's position is that in most cases it isn't his side doing the compromising. That isn't a spirit of bipartisanship and shouldn't be considered as such. He mentions tax cuts for 95% of Americans but doesn't mention how he'll do it - by eliminating the Bush tax cuts, which is a de facto tax increase. He is trying to package redistribution of wealth as a mainstream view. I think time will tell how well it all holds up.
Besides obvious criticisms though, I think the speech served its purpose in lifting up Democrats. We'll see how it plays out. Overall I have to say I enjoyed it, but felt that it wasn't one of his best.
hell, he made me comfortable with his positions, even the ones I disagree with. I can see that he is sincere about it, and not just politicking. So maybe we can go halfway on some things, instead of being stuck in a stalemate. I realized that this is going to take a while, and this election is just the first step.
Ha! He DID move more towards the center with that speech, as we spoke about before. I thought Obama's speech was very effective. Talking about finding common ground on some of the touchiest issues of the day? He may get hammered for that by some of the ultras, but I really loved hearing that. You characterized it perfectly I think, pragmatic Liberalism.