So.
(e:zobar) is at the Association of Alternative Newsweeklies' Annual Convention, in Oregon of all places.
I am horridly jealous, as I have never been to OR or indeed any of the Pacific Northwest or for that matter the West at all except 1 brief visit to SoCal and a trip to AZ as a 12-year-old. (OMG. FUCKING GORGEOUS DESERT. It's a damn shame I can't deal with too much sun.)
Anyway.
More importantly:
I am home alone. It's just me, here. Me, and the plecostomus catfish (creatively named "Pleco", or "Plecosaurus" when I'm drunk). Me and the catfish in his tank, and the liquor cabinet, and wireless Internet.
This oughta be good.
The catfish, I might mention, is shy, and so if you look at him, he flips out. Somehow, despite being about as inert as it's possible for a living thing to get, he notices when you look at him from across the room, and tries to dive under the gravel in the tank.
I'm about evenly torn between totally trashing the house and cleaning it top to bottom. We'll see how the weekend progresses. It's still only Wednesday.
Dragonlady7's Journal
My Podcast Link
06/13/2007 18:35 #39647
home alone06/04/2007 00:44 #39521
Pride(e:zobar), I never knew you were so proud of doing naughty things to me. I think you should exercise your pride more frequently. My vagina will just be over here, ok? So if you need it, you know, to be proud of, you know, I'm here for you.
Anyway. I had never actually attended a Pride event before, so this one was exceptionally exciting for me.
I was sick as a dog, though, which reduced the amusement value.
The whole thing should really more accurately be named, "The Festival Of Awesome T-Shirts" because I saw so many hilarious clever shirts.
A few samples I can still remember:
"I FOUND JESUS-- he was behind the couch the whole time!" (worn by a dude standing right next to the first group of protestors, who I skated up to in complete innocence and handed handbills to without even noticing they were yelling about my shamelessness in their megaphones. I told you I've been sick.)
"Girls are better at eating pussy." (I suppose out of diplomacy I shouldn't comment. but out of pride one should practice more. right??)
"I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is" (worn by the husband of a rollergirl)
"Don't like abortions? Don't have one" (seen it before, but it's worth mentioning)
And then there were a lot of cool or clever graphical ones I can't really convey here, but they were cool, take my word for it.
However. The coolest part of the whole day, at least to me, ruled so hard I just can't get over it.
So there are a pair of protesters, one with a megaphone and the other with a sign that says, like, Jesus hates you, or something to that effect. Whatever. The megaphone dude is going on and on, really loud, about how "YOU ARE ABOMINATIONS-- YOU SHAMELESS WOMEN WHO LIE WITH WOMEN" (I assume this was directed at my group, who were all rollergirls; most of us are straight or bi [and of the bi girls, most of us are in monogamous heterosexual relationships so it's more a matter of self-identification than anything else] but you know, whatever. We were skating in a Pride parade, so we were sort of ready to be called lesbos. I don't think any of us mind.) Then the dude started going on about marriage, probably because the float a little ways behind us was about legalizing gay marriage (like nine out of ten of the floats were...)
So I hiked my shirt up and flashed him my bra, and yelled "JESUS LOVES YOU TOO!"
The dude looked at me and pretended not to see me, but the next thing he said was "THE ONLY REAL LOVE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS HUSBAND."
Then there was kind of a pause.
"ER I MEAN WIFE."
I died laughing.
Anyway. I had never actually attended a Pride event before, so this one was exceptionally exciting for me.
I was sick as a dog, though, which reduced the amusement value.
The whole thing should really more accurately be named, "The Festival Of Awesome T-Shirts" because I saw so many hilarious clever shirts.
A few samples I can still remember:
"I FOUND JESUS-- he was behind the couch the whole time!" (worn by a dude standing right next to the first group of protestors, who I skated up to in complete innocence and handed handbills to without even noticing they were yelling about my shamelessness in their megaphones. I told you I've been sick.)
"Girls are better at eating pussy." (I suppose out of diplomacy I shouldn't comment. but out of pride one should practice more. right??)
"I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is" (worn by the husband of a rollergirl)
"Don't like abortions? Don't have one" (seen it before, but it's worth mentioning)
And then there were a lot of cool or clever graphical ones I can't really convey here, but they were cool, take my word for it.
However. The coolest part of the whole day, at least to me, ruled so hard I just can't get over it.
So there are a pair of protesters, one with a megaphone and the other with a sign that says, like, Jesus hates you, or something to that effect. Whatever. The megaphone dude is going on and on, really loud, about how "YOU ARE ABOMINATIONS-- YOU SHAMELESS WOMEN WHO LIE WITH WOMEN" (I assume this was directed at my group, who were all rollergirls; most of us are straight or bi [and of the bi girls, most of us are in monogamous heterosexual relationships so it's more a matter of self-identification than anything else] but you know, whatever. We were skating in a Pride parade, so we were sort of ready to be called lesbos. I don't think any of us mind.) Then the dude started going on about marriage, probably because the float a little ways behind us was about legalizing gay marriage (like nine out of ten of the floats were...)
So I hiked my shirt up and flashed him my bra, and yelled "JESUS LOVES YOU TOO!"
The dude looked at me and pretended not to see me, but the next thing he said was "THE ONLY REAL LOVE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS HUSBAND."
Then there was kind of a pause.
"ER I MEAN WIFE."
I died laughing.
ladycroft - 06/05/07 17:21
hey, i saw you and zobar skating in the parade. i yelled out to you but i was drowned out by the club thumping float behind you.
hey, i saw you and zobar skating in the parade. i yelled out to you but i was drowned out by the club thumping float behind you.
jenks - 06/04/07 23:11
see my latest journal for an awesome comeback to "but the bible says being gay is a sin"
see my latest journal for an awesome comeback to "but the bible says being gay is a sin"
metalpeter - 06/04/07 19:25
The reason I think this sometimes is that sometimes what the protesters (not in this case) protest isn't really a moral issue. Like at the square there isn't and fucking or any burning of bibles or praising satan. They are there everyweek no matter who performs. I'm not saying the only reason they are there is to be seen. But What I wonder is if the news didn't cover the sqaure and the parade would they show up? If the protester where smart they show up in much larger numbers (but maybe they don't have those numbers) and get on TV and use it as way to spread there message of hate. But of course if they get on TV then the other side gets more covarage and can spread the word of acceptance and tolerance and that being gay is fine. But maybe the protesters believe that they can shame people into changing or at least not marching or skating. I wonder if they believe that homosexuality can be changed or if it is just an unforgivable sin. One thing that I have allways hated about a many religions is that the beliefs promote hate instead of love like in my opinion it should. But the judging is just as bad. I have no problem if someone says that I think that what you are doing is wrong and I believe that how you live your life in sinfull and you are going to burn in hell. That implies two things first of all no yelling and explain your beliefs. Second understand that acording to "The Bible" (again my own belief) go to hell to, and that if your beliefs are wrong you go to hell also. Two people can both believe different things and understand that they believe different things and still not judge each other or not hate each other, just understand that they are different opionions. Sorry for this rant. But I think so many people live by their own beilfs and use the bible to endorse there belief system. The bible was writen by a men 400 years after jesus died, live by the spirit of Jesus not some book. In any event it was nice to see you and Z in the parade hopefully the pictures will be up soon.
The reason I think this sometimes is that sometimes what the protesters (not in this case) protest isn't really a moral issue. Like at the square there isn't and fucking or any burning of bibles or praising satan. They are there everyweek no matter who performs. I'm not saying the only reason they are there is to be seen. But What I wonder is if the news didn't cover the sqaure and the parade would they show up? If the protester where smart they show up in much larger numbers (but maybe they don't have those numbers) and get on TV and use it as way to spread there message of hate. But of course if they get on TV then the other side gets more covarage and can spread the word of acceptance and tolerance and that being gay is fine. But maybe the protesters believe that they can shame people into changing or at least not marching or skating. I wonder if they believe that homosexuality can be changed or if it is just an unforgivable sin. One thing that I have allways hated about a many religions is that the beliefs promote hate instead of love like in my opinion it should. But the judging is just as bad. I have no problem if someone says that I think that what you are doing is wrong and I believe that how you live your life in sinfull and you are going to burn in hell. That implies two things first of all no yelling and explain your beliefs. Second understand that acording to "The Bible" (again my own belief) go to hell to, and that if your beliefs are wrong you go to hell also. Two people can both believe different things and understand that they believe different things and still not judge each other or not hate each other, just understand that they are different opionions. Sorry for this rant. But I think so many people live by their own beilfs and use the bible to endorse there belief system. The bible was writen by a men 400 years after jesus died, live by the spirit of Jesus not some book. In any event it was nice to see you and Z in the parade hopefully the pictures will be up soon.
dragonlady7 - 06/04/07 18:22
> sometimes I wonder if the protestors do it as a way to get people to see them and maybe open up to there ideas
No, honey. If you want visibility and interest, you pick some way of doing it besides standing in a group of people pre-selected to find you horrible and screaming, literally screaming, about how you find them irredeemable and an abomination in the sight of your Lord.
If you actually want converts, your message might include some kind of exhortation to turn away from the path of sin.
There was none of that here-- it was all condemnation.
I think they were there to be seen by their own kind, to reaffirm to their own kind that they're making some kind of stand against the forces that oppose them-- but if you weren't already on their side, they were an irrelevant and infuriating annoyance. They had no useful message to spread, and had no actual Christian qualities whatsoever. Being a practicing Christian myself, I was actually pretty damn offended, and I did actually tell one of them to get his filthy hands off of my Jesus. Not that it mattered; they weren't there to engage in dialogue, but to be righteously offended by everything that transpired, even if most of what transpired was life-affirming solidarity from a broad subsection of a community.
> sometimes I wonder if the protestors do it as a way to get people to see them and maybe open up to there ideas
No, honey. If you want visibility and interest, you pick some way of doing it besides standing in a group of people pre-selected to find you horrible and screaming, literally screaming, about how you find them irredeemable and an abomination in the sight of your Lord.
If you actually want converts, your message might include some kind of exhortation to turn away from the path of sin.
There was none of that here-- it was all condemnation.
I think they were there to be seen by their own kind, to reaffirm to their own kind that they're making some kind of stand against the forces that oppose them-- but if you weren't already on their side, they were an irrelevant and infuriating annoyance. They had no useful message to spread, and had no actual Christian qualities whatsoever. Being a practicing Christian myself, I was actually pretty damn offended, and I did actually tell one of them to get his filthy hands off of my Jesus. Not that it mattered; they weren't there to engage in dialogue, but to be righteously offended by everything that transpired, even if most of what transpired was life-affirming solidarity from a broad subsection of a community.
metalpeter - 06/04/07 17:40
"The I'm Not gay but my Boyfriend is" I have seen before but not in that way. Dennis Rodman used to wear that shirt (I belive when he was with and banging Carmen Elktra). The thing about Girls eating pussy better is funny but on the other hand I've heard that said before seriously and I really don't doubt it. Sometimes I wonder if the protesters do it as a way to get people to see them and maybe open up to there ideas as opposed to a way of condeming people to condem them.
"The I'm Not gay but my Boyfriend is" I have seen before but not in that way. Dennis Rodman used to wear that shirt (I belive when he was with and banging Carmen Elktra). The thing about Girls eating pussy better is funny but on the other hand I've heard that said before seriously and I really don't doubt it. Sometimes I wonder if the protesters do it as a way to get people to see them and maybe open up to there ideas as opposed to a way of condeming people to condem them.
mike - 06/04/07 15:39
that is hilariously awesome!
that is hilariously awesome!
fellyconnelly - 06/04/07 11:11
there are tears in my eyes from such a wonderful interaction... thank you for making my monday a little more enjoyable!
there are tears in my eyes from such a wonderful interaction... thank you for making my monday a little more enjoyable!
theecarey - 06/04/07 01:09
"THE ONLY REAL LOVE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS HUSBAND." oh damn, if that wasn't a Freudian slip..
'I found Jesus.. behind the couch'. oh how I love a good t-shirt, may I rot in hell.
"THE ONLY REAL LOVE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS HUSBAND." oh damn, if that wasn't a Freudian slip..
'I found Jesus.. behind the couch'. oh how I love a good t-shirt, may I rot in hell.
05/19/2007 10:29 #39343
TODAYIs the Hell on Wheels roller derby bout. I will be hosting it, singing the Canadian National Anthem, and in general being an enthused spectator. My team captain will be MCing in her leather chaps and i assure you it's a sight to behold. (She teaches fitness classes. Ask her about how to get an ass like hers.)
TODAY, 7:00, Rainbow Rink, 101 Oliver St. North Tonawanda, $15 at the door, halftime band, and I promise you it will be a hell of a match. We've never had a fight yet, but you know, there have been some prickly tempers this past month, and I'm expecting that there'll at least be some shouting.
On top of some excellent derby-- these are both very good teams with some experienced players. That's the best thing about this hectic first season, I think-- every time we play, we all get better, because we all still have so much to learn.
But we've come so far, from those first Bambi-On-Ice staggering steps around the rink last July...
Come see us! There will be beer! I may have to not be on skates just so I can drink said beer, as I've never actually been allowed any before (WFTDA international rules state that no skater can consume alcohol while on skates at an event. Which I imagine leads to a lot of girls running around in their socks, but, we'll see how that's enforced. If you see me in my socks tonight, then you know how it's going down-- ohhh, yeah.)
This is also the first roller derby bout I will ever be attending, instead of skating in. I am SO EXCITED. I have literally never watched one. I don't know what it looks like, with all the people and the screaming and the, everything, you know??? Oh I'm excited.
And-- bonus!!! If any of you show up to this one, I'll be able to sit with you and explain what's going on!!! (In addition we have a demo that will run on the projectors on a continuous loop-- we were supposed to for the last one and it went missing at the last minute, so y'all were on your own, but this one will be better we promise.)
So anyway-- come out! It will be totally awesome!!
TODAY, 7:00, Rainbow Rink, 101 Oliver St. North Tonawanda, $15 at the door, halftime band, and I promise you it will be a hell of a match. We've never had a fight yet, but you know, there have been some prickly tempers this past month, and I'm expecting that there'll at least be some shouting.
On top of some excellent derby-- these are both very good teams with some experienced players. That's the best thing about this hectic first season, I think-- every time we play, we all get better, because we all still have so much to learn.
But we've come so far, from those first Bambi-On-Ice staggering steps around the rink last July...
Come see us! There will be beer! I may have to not be on skates just so I can drink said beer, as I've never actually been allowed any before (WFTDA international rules state that no skater can consume alcohol while on skates at an event. Which I imagine leads to a lot of girls running around in their socks, but, we'll see how that's enforced. If you see me in my socks tonight, then you know how it's going down-- ohhh, yeah.)
This is also the first roller derby bout I will ever be attending, instead of skating in. I am SO EXCITED. I have literally never watched one. I don't know what it looks like, with all the people and the screaming and the, everything, you know??? Oh I'm excited.
And-- bonus!!! If any of you show up to this one, I'll be able to sit with you and explain what's going on!!! (In addition we have a demo that will run on the projectors on a continuous loop-- we were supposed to for the last one and it went missing at the last minute, so y'all were on your own, but this one will be better we promise.)
So anyway-- come out! It will be totally awesome!!
fellyconnelly - 05/19/07 17:11
There is - the hudson valley horrors are here... and we have never seen them in a match before as they are quite new and I've been so busy this past year. Besides, I'm focusing on the future and all things buffalo right now - ergo the queen city roller girls are the preferable first roller derby team to watch!
There is - the hudson valley horrors are here... and we have never seen them in a match before as they are quite new and I've been so busy this past year. Besides, I'm focusing on the future and all things buffalo right now - ergo the queen city roller girls are the preferable first roller derby team to watch!
dragonlady7 - 05/19/07 16:54
There might be a team where you live now-- although I recall you being someplace odd which I can't remember now, so maybe not.
Anyway.
Then we look forward to having you in the audience!!!
There might be a team where you live now-- although I recall you being someplace odd which I can't remember now, so maybe not.
Anyway.
Then we look forward to having you in the audience!!!
fellyconnelly - 05/19/07 16:08
I can't wait to move to buffalo to come watch!
I can't wait to move to buffalo to come watch!
05/22/2007 23:04 #39381
obesity rant. you sick of this? me too.So someone on LJ was writing
about some fascinating gender politics stuff she'd been reading, in particular someone's observations of body language issues between men and women. I responded to that with some points about how, growing up, I was always the largest of my peers, and how that formed me-- I went to a girls' high school, and am quite big for a woman, and so got used to thinking of myself as huge, which is odd now that I live in a mixed-company world in which men are often significantly larger than I am-- but not in my head, which still thinks of myself as so big...
And someone else on LJ was ranting
about how the current constant state of ill-informed panic about how Americans Are Fat Oh Noes Dieting Is The Answer! is based almost exclusively on poor science and statistics with no adjustments or controls, combined with generalized willful ignorance of the contributing factors. And I wrote her an amen, sister! And in the course of my amen, I looked up what my BMI actually is.
So I found this helpful government website about obesity.
It had a handy-dandy BMI calculator, which I used to make my point (5 feet 7 inches times 190 pounds equals 29.8, which by their chart scrapes me in just under "obese" in the "overweight" category).
Which depressed me a little. I suppose. Much as I talk a big line about how I don't think my weight is at all an issue in my health, and I think women my size should refuse to be pigeonholed as Fat, etc., etc., it still is depressing to think that, well, yes, I'm clinically obese, and yes, I really am that big.
But then I kept reading on that website-- I clicked the link called "limitations of the BMI" because the original poster, on LJ, had mentioned her disgust with the use of BMI as the sole indicator of obesity, and I had heard rumblings about it but had never really seen coherently explained what other factors could be used.
So I clicked, and read, and became really super enraged at my stupid doctor. (I know I blogged this on here but it was a while ago so let me explain-- no, let me sum up: My knees were hurting because I was exercising too much what with the 40 hours of waitressing and 10+ hours of roller derby, so I went to the doctor, who said yes yes you should rest, and then asked my height, did math in her head, told me I was obese, and instructed me to exercise more. Yes. Exercise less, but exercise more. She then told me, when I pointed out that I already exercised a damn lot, that I should cut down on my carbs. That was the sum total of her advice to me. So your knees hurt and you have eczema: Why don't you diet?)
So anyway. Apparently BMI is only the slightest bit meaningful, and so to determine whether someone is actually obese or not, you must take other factors into account.
Jesus fucking Christ, I'd never have guessed that one.
What other factors are these, to give this poor innocent doctor a chance to not be a fucking idiot?
Well, for one thing, waist size. Yes, just a simple number, not at all adjusted for height. If you are a woman and your waist is over 35 inches, you are obese.
Hm. The largest my waist has ever been is 34 inches, so, by that statistic, I'm good. (At the moment it's 32 or 33 depending on when I last ate, pooped, or retained water.)
Doc, it's not looking so good for you.
But wait! Another chance. There's a whole list of risk factors and if you get two or more you should talk to your doctor about losing weight. (How's that for non-intensive language?)
Blood pressure-- but she'd just tested, and mine was fine-to-low. High cholesterol-- but, again, she'd just tested, and mine was ridiculously low. Family history stuff-- no. Smoking-- no. Blood sugar-- no, mine was excellent. Triglycerides-- didn't even mention these. Physical inactivity-- oh maybe that's it. Except oh wait no it isn't if you actually fucking listened to me.
The only issue I had was that my HDL cholesterol was slightly low. Which apparently would be solved if I exercised more. Which I would do, if she'd stopped going on about my fatness long enough to actually pay attention to the issue that had brought me into her office which was crippling pain in the knees apparently caused by overexertion!!!
I wish I could stop being angry over this, but I am just so pissed. I hate not being taken seriously. And now that I am more informed I'm even more angry.
My activity level has dropped. But the pain in my knees has been coming back when I've been more active-- any activity that involves a lot of standing up, walking around, even running, and my knees start to ache after a few hours. I still am fairly active, and it hasn't stopped me skating, but it hasn't gone away either. Maybe it's not just overuse? I don't hurt them at work anymore. But it's not gone entirely.
I'd go to a doctor about it, but what's the point? Now I'm between health insurance again so it would be out of my pocket, and I already know now that all they'll want to say is that I'm fat, even though the national heart lung and blood institute tells me I don't have enough risk factors for my weight to be a health issue.
Great!
about some fascinating gender politics stuff she'd been reading, in particular someone's observations of body language issues between men and women. I responded to that with some points about how, growing up, I was always the largest of my peers, and how that formed me-- I went to a girls' high school, and am quite big for a woman, and so got used to thinking of myself as huge, which is odd now that I live in a mixed-company world in which men are often significantly larger than I am-- but not in my head, which still thinks of myself as so big...
And someone else on LJ was ranting
about how the current constant state of ill-informed panic about how Americans Are Fat Oh Noes Dieting Is The Answer! is based almost exclusively on poor science and statistics with no adjustments or controls, combined with generalized willful ignorance of the contributing factors. And I wrote her an amen, sister! And in the course of my amen, I looked up what my BMI actually is.
So I found this helpful government website about obesity.
It had a handy-dandy BMI calculator, which I used to make my point (5 feet 7 inches times 190 pounds equals 29.8, which by their chart scrapes me in just under "obese" in the "overweight" category).
Which depressed me a little. I suppose. Much as I talk a big line about how I don't think my weight is at all an issue in my health, and I think women my size should refuse to be pigeonholed as Fat, etc., etc., it still is depressing to think that, well, yes, I'm clinically obese, and yes, I really am that big.
But then I kept reading on that website-- I clicked the link called "limitations of the BMI" because the original poster, on LJ, had mentioned her disgust with the use of BMI as the sole indicator of obesity, and I had heard rumblings about it but had never really seen coherently explained what other factors could be used.
So I clicked, and read, and became really super enraged at my stupid doctor. (I know I blogged this on here but it was a while ago so let me explain-- no, let me sum up: My knees were hurting because I was exercising too much what with the 40 hours of waitressing and 10+ hours of roller derby, so I went to the doctor, who said yes yes you should rest, and then asked my height, did math in her head, told me I was obese, and instructed me to exercise more. Yes. Exercise less, but exercise more. She then told me, when I pointed out that I already exercised a damn lot, that I should cut down on my carbs. That was the sum total of her advice to me. So your knees hurt and you have eczema: Why don't you diet?)
So anyway. Apparently BMI is only the slightest bit meaningful, and so to determine whether someone is actually obese or not, you must take other factors into account.
Jesus fucking Christ, I'd never have guessed that one.
What other factors are these, to give this poor innocent doctor a chance to not be a fucking idiot?
Well, for one thing, waist size. Yes, just a simple number, not at all adjusted for height. If you are a woman and your waist is over 35 inches, you are obese.
Hm. The largest my waist has ever been is 34 inches, so, by that statistic, I'm good. (At the moment it's 32 or 33 depending on when I last ate, pooped, or retained water.)
Doc, it's not looking so good for you.
But wait! Another chance. There's a whole list of risk factors and if you get two or more you should talk to your doctor about losing weight. (How's that for non-intensive language?)
Blood pressure-- but she'd just tested, and mine was fine-to-low. High cholesterol-- but, again, she'd just tested, and mine was ridiculously low. Family history stuff-- no. Smoking-- no. Blood sugar-- no, mine was excellent. Triglycerides-- didn't even mention these. Physical inactivity-- oh maybe that's it. Except oh wait no it isn't if you actually fucking listened to me.
The only issue I had was that my HDL cholesterol was slightly low. Which apparently would be solved if I exercised more. Which I would do, if she'd stopped going on about my fatness long enough to actually pay attention to the issue that had brought me into her office which was crippling pain in the knees apparently caused by overexertion!!!
- pant pant pant*
I wish I could stop being angry over this, but I am just so pissed. I hate not being taken seriously. And now that I am more informed I'm even more angry.
My activity level has dropped. But the pain in my knees has been coming back when I've been more active-- any activity that involves a lot of standing up, walking around, even running, and my knees start to ache after a few hours. I still am fairly active, and it hasn't stopped me skating, but it hasn't gone away either. Maybe it's not just overuse? I don't hurt them at work anymore. But it's not gone entirely.
I'd go to a doctor about it, but what's the point? Now I'm between health insurance again so it would be out of my pocket, and I already know now that all they'll want to say is that I'm fat, even though the national heart lung and blood institute tells me I don't have enough risk factors for my weight to be a health issue.
Great!
metalpeter - 05/23/07 17:26
The BMI system is very flawed for some people. First of all it only goes by height and weight and not by bone thickness or density. If someone my same height as thicker bones then I do and didn't get any taller then me then they will be over weight. The other factor that works in with that is how wide someone is. Again two people can be the same height and the person who has wider shoulders will be overweight. There are some measurements used that are better like percent bodyfat. There are different ways to measure it but it is basicly a percentage of fat to muscle. That is also a better indicator because the lower percentage of body fat then usaly the healthier you are.
Anyone can tell if they are fat or not just look and see if you have a gut and if so then you are fat. That brings up another point some people put all there weight on there and some it is put on other places where it is less visable. Yes extra weight does put extra stress on joints and your body carring the weight. But that dosn't mean you are unheathly. What is more important is what you eat and if you exercise or if you are fit cardovasicularly.
The BMI system is very flawed for some people. First of all it only goes by height and weight and not by bone thickness or density. If someone my same height as thicker bones then I do and didn't get any taller then me then they will be over weight. The other factor that works in with that is how wide someone is. Again two people can be the same height and the person who has wider shoulders will be overweight. There are some measurements used that are better like percent bodyfat. There are different ways to measure it but it is basicly a percentage of fat to muscle. That is also a better indicator because the lower percentage of body fat then usaly the healthier you are.
Anyone can tell if they are fat or not just look and see if you have a gut and if so then you are fat. That brings up another point some people put all there weight on there and some it is put on other places where it is less visable. Yes extra weight does put extra stress on joints and your body carring the weight. But that dosn't mean you are unheathly. What is more important is what you eat and if you exercise or if you are fit cardovasicularly.
museumchick - 05/23/07 13:52
Did your doctors ever test you for the different types of arthritis? It may be an issue that would be unrelated to weight (like RA). I have Lupus and its affected my knee joints a lot. Swimming helps a lot with the pain.
I find it a shame that your doctors putting so much emphasis on your weight (when it seems like you are taking good care of your health), instead of trying to find ways to reduce your discomfort.
Did your doctors ever test you for the different types of arthritis? It may be an issue that would be unrelated to weight (like RA). I have Lupus and its affected my knee joints a lot. Swimming helps a lot with the pain.
I find it a shame that your doctors putting so much emphasis on your weight (when it seems like you are taking good care of your health), instead of trying to find ways to reduce your discomfort.
james - 05/23/07 11:09
BMI was developed over 100 years ago by one of those god awful doctors caught up in the craze of scientific management. In which, people are one size fits all. That is to say, there are no morbidly obese people, there are no weight lifters, there are no on their feet waitresses who kick ass in roller derby, there are only the moderately sized and the horrifically average.
Arnold Schwartenager at his prime had a BMI of around 30. Which would make him very, overweight.
The Rock, that wrestler/actor thing, has a BMI of around 32.
And all of us good human machines are supposed to be under 25.
BMI does not take into account bone structure, build. The sort of things that distinguish Arnold and Oprah. It is a silly, silly bit of non-science and doctors who use it for anything other than a fast and dirty preliminary screaning are ignorant.
BMI was developed over 100 years ago by one of those god awful doctors caught up in the craze of scientific management. In which, people are one size fits all. That is to say, there are no morbidly obese people, there are no weight lifters, there are no on their feet waitresses who kick ass in roller derby, there are only the moderately sized and the horrifically average.
Arnold Schwartenager at his prime had a BMI of around 30. Which would make him very, overweight.
The Rock, that wrestler/actor thing, has a BMI of around 32.
And all of us good human machines are supposed to be under 25.
BMI does not take into account bone structure, build. The sort of things that distinguish Arnold and Oprah. It is a silly, silly bit of non-science and doctors who use it for anything other than a fast and dirty preliminary screaning are ignorant.
fellyconnelly - 05/23/07 10:51
wow... i, too, hate the BMI... I think I read/heard somewhere about michael jordan being obese based upon the BMI.
I hate doctors...
have you tried taking that glucosamine whatever for your knees? my father had horrible knee pain and he took something called 'joint juice' with that in it and hasn't complained in months...
just a thought...
wow... i, too, hate the BMI... I think I read/heard somewhere about michael jordan being obese based upon the BMI.
I hate doctors...
have you tried taking that glucosamine whatever for your knees? my father had horrible knee pain and he took something called 'joint juice' with that in it and hasn't complained in months...
just a thought...
jenks - 05/23/07 09:24
"lose weight", not "lost weight". oops.
"lose weight", not "lost weight". oops.
jenks - 05/23/07 09:21
yeah, there are fat people that are healthy, and there are skinny people that are unhealthy. But sadly I have found that when I'm called to see someone with a million medical problems (diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, gallstones etc etc etc-) chances are- they are fat. Cause/effect is debatable.
Don't think I'm not sympathizing. I have calculated my BMI over and over too, agonzing over that arbitrary cutoff between 'overweight' and 'obese'. I have always considered myself a 'fat girl' and it has done a number on my self-confidence etc. Even after losing some weight I still feel it. it sucks. But a rant about societal expectations blah blah is for some other time.
As far as knees- it's a vicious cycle. Extra weight puts extra stress on the knees. To get rid of the weight you are supposed to exercise, which puts stress on the knees. Lots/most of the gastric bypass patients I have seen have at least bad arthritis, if they haven't had their knees replaced already. As I'm sure you know, biking, swimming, etc may be worth considering.
And finally the waistline thing- i've never heard of waist circumference being used to define obesity, but it is pretty well established that it does correlate with some diseases. Women with 'central obesity', the so-called 'apple' figure (big belly, stick legs) are at higher risk for heart disease, etc (as compared to women of the same height/weight who carry their weight in their hips/thighs). i think that's where the waist number comes in. Belly fat tends to be intra-abdominal, vs butt fat which is generally just subcutaneous. Interesting, I think- but I wouldn't get too wrapped up in one number.
Sure, we all know it's healthier to not be obese. But we can't put all our self worth in it. And doctors know that. But at the same time, after see the sequelae of obesity over and over and over- "lost weight" unfortunately becomes a bit of a mantra.
Sorry you had a lousy experience with your doc... We're not all jerks though, I promise. :)
yeah, there are fat people that are healthy, and there are skinny people that are unhealthy. But sadly I have found that when I'm called to see someone with a million medical problems (diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, gallstones etc etc etc-) chances are- they are fat. Cause/effect is debatable.
Don't think I'm not sympathizing. I have calculated my BMI over and over too, agonzing over that arbitrary cutoff between 'overweight' and 'obese'. I have always considered myself a 'fat girl' and it has done a number on my self-confidence etc. Even after losing some weight I still feel it. it sucks. But a rant about societal expectations blah blah is for some other time.
As far as knees- it's a vicious cycle. Extra weight puts extra stress on the knees. To get rid of the weight you are supposed to exercise, which puts stress on the knees. Lots/most of the gastric bypass patients I have seen have at least bad arthritis, if they haven't had their knees replaced already. As I'm sure you know, biking, swimming, etc may be worth considering.
And finally the waistline thing- i've never heard of waist circumference being used to define obesity, but it is pretty well established that it does correlate with some diseases. Women with 'central obesity', the so-called 'apple' figure (big belly, stick legs) are at higher risk for heart disease, etc (as compared to women of the same height/weight who carry their weight in their hips/thighs). i think that's where the waist number comes in. Belly fat tends to be intra-abdominal, vs butt fat which is generally just subcutaneous. Interesting, I think- but I wouldn't get too wrapped up in one number.
Sure, we all know it's healthier to not be obese. But we can't put all our self worth in it. And doctors know that. But at the same time, after see the sequelae of obesity over and over and over- "lost weight" unfortunately becomes a bit of a mantra.
Sorry you had a lousy experience with your doc... We're not all jerks though, I promise. :)
theecarey - 05/23/07 01:31
I'll semi rant along with you. Its sounds like there is something more going on than overuse. But I dont know anything about knees to be of any help. When you are in a position to go see a (new) doc again, lay out some facts and figures to them. Some can think beyond the text books, others just cant, so back it up. Even if it was directly related to a weight issue, it would take time to take care of that, and in the meantime, something more invasive may need to be done. GAH!
Fortunately my primary doc now is someone who considers all of the other factors that go into health. I hate the labels, not just because of the weight I am at. But because it assumes that someone of a certain weight/height ratio is an avid Twinky eating couch potato.
I do agree that daily exercise and eating a nutrient dense diet (ie; eat to be 'healthy') are necessary. If total cholesterol, BP, strength, flexibility, daily activity, eating habits etc are in check, then for some, carrying extra weight is part of their physiology. Its not all necessarily in the form of fat.
According to labels, Ive been underweight, Ive been "normal" and now, well..
After a couple of back to back life events, I put on a ton and took off half of it or more, so far, but still got a ways to go. I'm not stressing it though. I can run circles around most of my friends in terms of physical activity and stamina. And all of the other stuff mentioned above is really good. But in the meantime, I run into health care providers who dont know all this, and I have to go through the spiel of what my lifestyle is like, etc. (pretty much what you and others have said). I understand that there is a strong correlation between higher weight and a slew of ailments/diseases etc, but its a correlation not a singular cause/effect.
I continue to aim to kick the last set of pounds-I'm accountable, I'm a big girl (bad pun)and know what to do and what not to do--ie; listening to a doc who's advice is their recommendation to buy one of the many fad diet books out there.
So my last two cents- continue to be active in the best way you can right now, keep a pain journal,(and how your lifestyle is changing based on the pain in your knee) and perhaps a food journal, in case the docs think that you consume 8,000 cals a day. And dont dont dont feel icky about the labels.
ok, thats all for now :)
I'll semi rant along with you. Its sounds like there is something more going on than overuse. But I dont know anything about knees to be of any help. When you are in a position to go see a (new) doc again, lay out some facts and figures to them. Some can think beyond the text books, others just cant, so back it up. Even if it was directly related to a weight issue, it would take time to take care of that, and in the meantime, something more invasive may need to be done. GAH!
Fortunately my primary doc now is someone who considers all of the other factors that go into health. I hate the labels, not just because of the weight I am at. But because it assumes that someone of a certain weight/height ratio is an avid Twinky eating couch potato.
I do agree that daily exercise and eating a nutrient dense diet (ie; eat to be 'healthy') are necessary. If total cholesterol, BP, strength, flexibility, daily activity, eating habits etc are in check, then for some, carrying extra weight is part of their physiology. Its not all necessarily in the form of fat.
According to labels, Ive been underweight, Ive been "normal" and now, well..
After a couple of back to back life events, I put on a ton and took off half of it or more, so far, but still got a ways to go. I'm not stressing it though. I can run circles around most of my friends in terms of physical activity and stamina. And all of the other stuff mentioned above is really good. But in the meantime, I run into health care providers who dont know all this, and I have to go through the spiel of what my lifestyle is like, etc. (pretty much what you and others have said). I understand that there is a strong correlation between higher weight and a slew of ailments/diseases etc, but its a correlation not a singular cause/effect.
I continue to aim to kick the last set of pounds-I'm accountable, I'm a big girl (bad pun)and know what to do and what not to do--ie; listening to a doc who's advice is their recommendation to buy one of the many fad diet books out there.
So my last two cents- continue to be active in the best way you can right now, keep a pain journal,(and how your lifestyle is changing based on the pain in your knee) and perhaps a food journal, in case the docs think that you consume 8,000 cals a day. And dont dont dont feel icky about the labels.
- healthy* is more than statistics.
ok, thats all for now :)
05/18/2007 10:04 #39330
it's time to party.I came to a decision last night at roller derby practice while sitting on the wall with my other slacker-Knockout sisters surreptitiously checking out our captain's ass in the leather chaps she was strapped into.
(There should probably be backstory. The Knockouts are not skating in this upcoming bout, they are hosting it, while the Saucies and the Dollies do all the hard work of beating the absolute shit out of one another. To be fair, the Knockouts have had the shit beaten out of them in the previous three bouts so far, so you know, it's not like we're always lazy. In fact half of us are crippled from April, so, you know, it's about time we had a rest before we're all dead. So the other two teams were huffing and sweating and you know, actually doing roller derby, while the Knockouts-- well, some of us were also rolling around like fiends, but those of us who know what's up, we were all sitting on the wall like a bunch of slackers. Our team captain has volunteered to be on the mike this time, co-announcing with our usual announcer; given that the bout's theme is Hell on Wheels, she's wearing a biker outfit, and it is, well, quite frankly, hot. I can't quite express the sheer incredible overwhelmingness of a 200-pound-woman with weightlifter's shoulders wearing leather chaps and a halter top. It's something to behold, I tell you.)
Anyway. Those of us who are total slackers were sitting on the wall and being utterly lazy, and were discussing the summer's reduced practice schedule. I decided that we needed to take all the extra time we're going to have, in the absence of team and league practices [which have, of late, literally been every day of the week-- April nearly fucking killed us all], and devote that same focus, energy, and determination to the act of partying.
I think we need to set up a rigorous schedule of social events this summer. There needs to be at least one rollergirl party a week. Enough of us have porches and patios and hot tubs and garage-bar-setups and blenders and, in my case, ridiculous fucking liquor cabinets that this can happen. This is going to be a thing.
It's going to be a thing. This will be the summer of Party.
I'll be sure to throw at least one (e:strip) party.
(There should probably be backstory. The Knockouts are not skating in this upcoming bout, they are hosting it, while the Saucies and the Dollies do all the hard work of beating the absolute shit out of one another. To be fair, the Knockouts have had the shit beaten out of them in the previous three bouts so far, so you know, it's not like we're always lazy. In fact half of us are crippled from April, so, you know, it's about time we had a rest before we're all dead. So the other two teams were huffing and sweating and you know, actually doing roller derby, while the Knockouts-- well, some of us were also rolling around like fiends, but those of us who know what's up, we were all sitting on the wall like a bunch of slackers. Our team captain has volunteered to be on the mike this time, co-announcing with our usual announcer; given that the bout's theme is Hell on Wheels, she's wearing a biker outfit, and it is, well, quite frankly, hot. I can't quite express the sheer incredible overwhelmingness of a 200-pound-woman with weightlifter's shoulders wearing leather chaps and a halter top. It's something to behold, I tell you.)
Anyway. Those of us who are total slackers were sitting on the wall and being utterly lazy, and were discussing the summer's reduced practice schedule. I decided that we needed to take all the extra time we're going to have, in the absence of team and league practices [which have, of late, literally been every day of the week-- April nearly fucking killed us all], and devote that same focus, energy, and determination to the act of partying.
I think we need to set up a rigorous schedule of social events this summer. There needs to be at least one rollergirl party a week. Enough of us have porches and patios and hot tubs and garage-bar-setups and blenders and, in my case, ridiculous fucking liquor cabinets that this can happen. This is going to be a thing.
It's going to be a thing. This will be the summer of Party.
I'll be sure to throw at least one (e:strip) party.
And LOL-- I'm feeling energized tonight so maybe I will trash and clean the house! I really should do both. It'll just make it all that much more rewarding.
I'm gonna need me some more Jack Daniels though. :(
He's kind of a bastard.
Or something.
He does this thing, when we feed him frozen green beans, and they defrost and sink to the bottom, he gets all excited and kind of wrestles them as he eats them. So it's really entertaining to watch. But he notices, now, that you're watching him, and he puts his dorsal fin down and kind of glares at you, and gets all sullen.
So it's really sad because since we've got no TV, he's the only entertainment I've got, and he hates it when I watch him.
I think (e:zobar) blogged the bean wrestling before. I'm going to look that up.
That bit about your catfish is hilarious. :)
try cleaning the house top to bottom while drunk.... sometimes that results in trashing the house then *poof* two birds... one bottle..
You got time to do both?