Dragonfire1024's Journal

03/05/2006 14:12 #21936

Ok..."so no hotel"

Well lets see. Maybe wthe city should o their job and put Hans Mobius in jail for the laws and codes he has been breaking for the past 20 years by again INTENTIONALLY neglecting his properties soi there would be no choice to tear them down. So we again, let him get away with this. Then we are rewarding him for what he did and encourages others to do the same.

The City needs to stand up and get these slum lords.

I am AGAINST Pano expanding hios resturant too. If he includes the Atwater House (all of it) then let him expand. I will also add I work for him. He is also my land lord and he is WELL AWARE of my stance being AGAINST his expansion and AGAINST the hotel. And he respects that. Just like he respects you ( (e:Uncutsaniflush) ) not eating there.

As I said, I do not care where in Buffalo you live, but this is more a community/nieghborhood issue than a city issue. As I said before, if you do not use the shops, never have, and you live in Williamsville, Amherst or Cheektowaga ETC., and you want this hotel, build it in your own city.

I am a Kenmore resident, true dat. I think you could put the exact same building on Kenmore's Delaware strip and it would be no less successful than if it were on Elmwood. I think it would be excellent to have that building in my neighborhood. - (e:zobar)

Good...then build it there.

I think it would be a shame if the city reinforced its reputation as
hostile to new development and lost yet another opportunity at urban
renewal and tax income to the suburbs - but it would not be the first time,
and it will not be the last. If it were to come to that, I can only
hope they would consider building on Kenmore's Delaware strip rather than
nowhere at all. -(e:zobar)

Hello? Bass Pro? Last I heard the city wanted Bass Pro...and where are they? I am afraid Bass Pro is to blame on this one.

zobar - 03/05/06 16:12
> Hello? Bass Pro?

Now I am very confused. I was under the impression that the only thing Bass Pro did wrong was to rely on our government to actually do something [improve infrastructure, give them money - where they would get that I couldn't tell you]. All Savarino needs from the government is their stamp on the deed - no public funding, no wheeling and dealing, no nothing. Seems to me that's the only way you can ever get anything done around here anyway.

- Z

mrdt - 03/05/06 15:52
tourism is one of the third larget businesses in north america. buffalo needs to start capitalizing on this. unfortunately, every time te city begins to change and grow like a healthy city (ie TO, NYC, Chicago) the residents always seem to be scared of it.

metalpeter - 03/05/06 15:42
You bring up a good point. The city and state fuck things up enough with out all the citizens making it hard for businesses that they personaly don't think will fit in. Well that scares off other places. I admit paul does make a good point that soon the people who live near elmwood or on elmwood won't be able to afforid it. But I think you have let businesses come to Buffalo and elmwood who want to. There needs to be a mix. Mostly Local shops and some bigger shops with a name that draws people to the area. I could be wrong about this but I don't think most local places could stay open with only local money for the neighboorhood.

zobar - 03/05/06 15:14
I think it would be a shame if the city reinforced its reputation as hostile to new development and lost yet another opportunity at urban renewal and tax income to the suburbs - but it would not be the first time, and it will not be the last. If it were to come to that, I can only hope they would consider building on Kenmore's Delaware strip rather than nowhere at all.

- Z

03/05/2006 13:59 #21935

clarify you guys

I may have come across the wrong way. "you Guys" was in reference to those that commented on my blog. Perhaps I was a little haresh but nonetheless, I should have made it clear to Who I was referring to.

03/05/2006 10:53 #21934

Response to you guys

Ok sure...let demolish the houses build a hotel, to which no one in buffalo will use, destroy the urban setting of elmwood. While we are at it lets tear down the whole block. While we are at it why not the Atwater house? Lets just tear everything down put up a even bigger hotel because so many tourists come here. To even think this hotel is going to create any jobs is stupid. What jobs? 72 rooms is not jobs. Bass Pro is jobs...1,000+ jobs to be exact.

I like a lot of things in Buffalo, the art gallery is one of them, but do enough people go there YEAR AROUND to justify a hotel? Do enough peole stay at Buffalo State College YEAR AROUND to justify a hotel? The festivals on Elmwood are a good example, when they are going on. They are not a year around event. I like the art gallery, however; If I am a tourist, I don't think that Buffalo is on the top of my list to visit. No offense, but we have to look at it realistically. A hotel, a 72 room hotel, with 55 parking spaces 2 over priced shops and a resturaunt is not an attraction. And the Falls...well are they in Buffalo???

Last I checked there were not enough "conventions" or "seminars" in Buffalo YEAR AROUND to support even the hotels down town. In fact the ONLY time any of the hotels down town are full is during an event. Otherwise they are 60% full on average.

So we destroy viable businesses, that the COMMUNITY uses, to put up something we will never use. What's the sense in that?

This is a COMMUNITY issue. A NIEGHBORHOOD issue. Not a city issue or a tourism issue. If it was the hotel would be somewhere else and much much bigger. If you live in Amherst or Cheektowaga or Williamsviille or anywhere other than Buffalo or the surrounding NEIGHBORHOOD, and you want this hotel, then build it in your own damn city. Personally if you are that concerned about your family and friends then you would want it closer. So stop telling ME whats good for MY/OUR neighboorhood. You move here, and you use the shops and then you can tell me what is good for MY/OUR nieghborhood.

Also last time I checked everyone who lives in the IMMDEIATE area of this hotel is AGAINST it.

I remember a quote by Sam Savarino on the first and so far only community meeting on the hotel, and which I have on tape, saying:

"Some people have gotten emotional about this project. And I want to let the community know that we will listen to what you have to say. We're not forcing this down anybody's throat. If this is not something this community wants, we do not want to have it here."

The COMMUNITY does not want it. Knock on the doors all around Elmwood, Granger, Penhurst, Claremont, Ashland, you will see...they don't want it, and neither do I.

jenks - 03/05/06 11:40
I live on claremont. I do not oppose a facelift to that corner.

zobar - 03/05/06 11:30
> no one in buffalo will use

Which, frankly is a good thing. Outside dollars coming in is much better than inside dollars getting shuffled around.

> destroy the urban setting of elmwood

By replacing set-back converted houses with an urban, curbside, multi-use structure common in most large cities.

> While we are at it lets tear down the whole block.

While we are at it let's work on making our appeals to ridicule :::link::: a bit more subtle, shall we?

> Otherwise they are 60% full on average.

A baseline of 60% capacity is phenomenal. This means that even when you don't think anything is happening in the city at all, almost two out of every three Buffalo hotel rooms are occupied.

> Not a city issue or a tourism issue.

Arguing that putting a hotel in the city is neither a city issue nor a tourism issue is kind of ridiculous, wouldn't you say? Especially when you're arguing that there isn't enough tourism in the city to sustain it.

> build it in your own damn city

I am a Kenmore resident, true dat. I think you could put the exact same building on Kenmore's Delaware strip and it would be no less successful than if it were on Elmwood. I think it would be excellent to have that building in my neighborhood. But I would rather see it in the city rather than outside it. Why? Because Buffalo is far more important than Kenmore will ever be, and Buffalo could use the help. Perhaps the reason the suburbs are doing just fine even while the city crumbles is that there's so much less nimbyism :::link::: here.

- Z

03/05/2006 08:51 #21933

Journal Comment response

Well here is a response to a comment posted on my latest blog. The bold is what he said. And its the whole comment...nothing deleted or added.

"wait you are trying to tell me that because they tore down a hotel on Forrest and Elmwood in 1901 because it wasn't financially viable, there's no way that one could be successful in 2006?"

1. it's Forest. One R.
2. No I am not saying that. What I am saying is that any hotel for the last 106 years that existed in the general area around Elmwood and Forest, has not been financially successful. Not one. In fact, tell me one hotel that is in the area here. If you had read it properly you would see that a hotel existed right on Forest and Lincoln parkway. Where is it?

"I applaud your research and dedication, but give me a break. This hotel is essentially a sign of Buffalo's turn around,"

1. Turnaround? You need to have something here people want to come to from out of state etc. Do you think someone is going to come stay at this hotel to go to Coles or India Gate?

"It will enrich your neighborhood by helping your local businesses to thrive. take India Gate for example, they have amazing service and fantastic food, but they can't afford to upgrade their dumpy blue awning."

1. What businesses? The ones I really like will be demolished. Businesses that I already shop at and use. Right...where will people shop at on this end of Elmwood when these are gone? We Never Close? The current shops are original and thats what Elmwood stands for. Mom and Pop stores. I know that a storefron in a 7 million dollar hotel is going to cost a pretty penny or a trillion. So how would I be able to afford going into these "shops"? Also note that there are only 2 storefronts and a resturant in the new design. Right...i see a lot of shopping going on. Furthermore, how will a hotel benefit me when it wil be less than 5 feet from my house? I am not going to stay in it.

"An influx of customers from the new hotel will help them thrive and expand, Iâ€™m sure all the businesses in the area will flourish, and that is a good thing."

1. Again. Where are the "influx of customers" going to come from? Do you think someone is sitting in California saying, "hey they just built that new hotel in Buffalo. Lets go and stay in it." No. You need to have something here they want to come to first.

Plus the homes theyâ€™re tearing down are dumpy, not architectural treasures. Let this project move forward.

So we are supposed to reward a landlord (Hans Mobius) for neglecting his properties INTENTIONALLY for 20 years? Tell me, whats right about that? Thats why they are a dump. You need to yell at him about that. He is a slum lord. If the city had forced him to keep them up to code like the city is supposed to, they would not be "dumpy". Also, any improvements done on the properties were done by the business owners and residents or non-profit groups (the grop I forget the name, did all the neon lights you see that are not working anymore mostly....look over coles, you will see them there too...all down the street) Dumpy? I can name a lot more worse looking places in Buffalo...

zobar - 03/05/06 10:29
As I recall, there was a local paper that interviewed one of the tenants that would be displaced :::link::: :

I knew sooner or later Mobius was going to sell and Iâ€™d have to move. But, you know, Iâ€™m still not happy about it. You kind of believe itâ€™s never going to happen. After all, heâ€™s had the property up for sale for 11 years. I know Iâ€™m going to die someday, too, but I donâ€™t believe that either. It just sucks because I donâ€™t where Iâ€™m going to find space this cheap, except in some neighborhood I donâ€™t want to be in. And the thing is, people really like this store.

- Z

jenks - 03/05/06 10:13
Just one quick point-
The proposed location is near: albright knox, delaware park, buff state.
I.e. not just india gate and coles.

uncutsaniflush - 03/05/06 10:12
One of the reasons these businesses on Mobius properties have been able to survive is that their rents are way below market value.

Does anyone honestly think that if Mobius was forced to renovate his properties, the rents he charges wouldn't go up at the first opportunity?

Does anyone honestly think that if Mobius sold the properties to, say, Rocco Termini 5 or 10 years ago and Termini renovated the properties that any of these businesses would still be there now?

I don't think so. When a landlord, no matter how naughty or nice, spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to renovate a property, he or she is going to want a return on their investment. And raising the rents is one of traditional ways to insure a higher return on investment.

It is have been reported, and anyone please correct if I am wrong about this, that the businesses in question can't afford to move elsewhere on Elmwood because they can't find new spaces at the same low rents.

This seems to prove my contention that the rents Mobius charges are low for the area.

If he was a better landlord and renovated the properties, these businesses wouldn't be there for the community to love because their rents would have been much higher than they are now.

So, ironically enough, the Elmwood Avenue community has benefitted from Mobius's refusal to upgrade his properties and impose higher rents on his tenants.

Of course, ultimately, that has very little to do with the desirability or lack thereof of a hotel on that corner.

It shouldn't matter if Mobius, Termini, or even Pano himself owns the properties.

It shouldn't matter if the landlord is the Devil incarnate or an avatar of Vishnu or even Michael the Arcangel.

Either it is a good idea to have a hotel at the corner of Elmwood and Forest or it isn't.

Everything is just window dressing.

But that is just me, as always, I could be wrong.

zobar - 03/05/06 09:59
The most terrible part about this argument is that it is predicated on the assumption that Buffalo is a worthless shithole that nobody in their right mind would be caught dead in, unless they were born here and couldn't scrape together the bus fare out. It is insidious because once you believe this, any urban revitalization at all is pointless.

There are many reasons people come to Buffalo:

- Family and friends. The biggest reason people have for leaving Buffalo is that even though they like it here, they can't find a job. These people constitute a large and often overlooked proportion of Buffalo's tourism industry. When they come back to visit, they need a place to stay. Sometimes, this is a couch in the living room. Sometimes, this is a hotel [especially for, eg, weddings & reunions].

- Parents of college students, on Move In Day, Move Out Day, and Shit Hide the Reefer It's Parents' Weekend. Ever wonder why there's always a cluster of hotels around college campuses? Ever wonder why there isn't a single hotel near Buff. State?

- Conventions, seminars, and symposia. This is another large, overlooked piece of Buffalo's tourism industry. As cruddy and weird as our convention center is, they're booked solid, for everything from the Civic Empowerment Awards to the Myofacial Release Seminar. I ain't never heard of myofacial releases, but I bet the people who have make tons of money, and they'll all need a place to stay while they're here.

- Actual tourism. Weird. Aside from one of the seven natural wonders of the world, we also have: Several festivals, including the largest outdoor art festival in the country, drawing exhibitors from all over the United States [all of whom need a place to stay]; architecture that looks like Art Deco himself barfed all over our downtown; sports, including major-league football and hockey teams, fishing, and, oddly enough, surfing :::link::: ; and countless other reasons you might find yourself wondering where to spend the night.

- Z

03/04/2006 11:17 #21932

Hotel to be or not to be?

Well I have done some real in depth reporting this time. And I think some of you might be suprised.

There was NO hotel on the same site they want to build the Elmwood Village Hotel. There was however; one right across the street where the Mobil gas station is.

My Latest article I wrote:

Rocco Termini writes a letter to the Buffalo news, and it was published 3 hours ago:

That TEMPORARY hotel was called the Statler Hotel, or Statler's. It was built in 1901 for the Pan-American Exposition and ONLY for the exposition. It was taken down with 90% of everything else for the exposition and that was that.

The hotel I might add, was a failure, financially. According to documents he took what little money he (Ellsworth Milton Statker) made and built the next temporary hotel in St. Loius for their exhibition in 1904....that one was successful.

It also shows that there were no hotels or rooming houses in the area prior to the exposition, and after. To this day, any hotel or rooming house that was documented in records at the Buffalo Historical Society, in this area, does not exist anymore, and no hotel since then has existed in this area and to this day there is not one.

So tell me, if a hotel has not been financially successful for 100 years, why would it be now?

Sign the petition to STOP the Elmwood Village Hotel and put and end to this madness: Petition:

jason - 03/04/06 16:35
I understand the sentiment, that people want something positive for the community and the city to move forward.

The hotel will bring money to the neighborhood? In theory, yes, if people were attracted to the hotel for some reason it would yield results.

What is attracting people to this hotel year round? That's the question that nobody has adequately answered. A hotel, in and of itself, is absolutely worthless unless there is something that would bring people to it.

People are going to come to Elmwood and stay overnight so they can go to Cole's or India Gate? If that is the justification for this project, I fear it will be a disaster.

For this project to be a success, there has to be a viable economic justification. There has to be a reason for people to stay there. The chicken does not come before the egg. If someone can convince me otherwise, I am happy to listen.

dcoffee - 03/04/06 12:49
wait you are trying to tell me that because they tore down a hotel on Forrest and Elmwood in 1901 because it wasn't financially viable, there's no way that one could be successful in 2006? I applaud your research and dedication, but give me a break. This hotel is essentially a sign of Buffalo's turn around, it will enrich your neighborhood by helping your local businesses to thrive. take India Gate for example, they have amazing service and fantastic food, but they can't afford to upgrade their dumpy blue awning. An influx of customers from the new hotel will help them thrive and expand, Iâ€™m sure all the businesses in the area will flourish, and that is a good thing. Plus the homes theyâ€™re tearing down are dumpy, not architectural treasures. Let this project move forward.