I will say one thing: you can get a lot of apartment in Buffalo for your money. And one other thing: I can see why (e:jenks) likes Spot Coffee for people watching. Wish I had more time to sit and watch the world go by... but I was busy seeing apartments.
Surprisingly, given the WTF? kind of reaction of e-:strippers to Rand Avenue, it's a nice street. Nice in a residential, tree-lined sort of way. Short walking distance to Delaware Park, a Feel-Rite, Bagel Jay's and a couple of other businesses. And a slightly longish walk to Hertel. Apartments there are pretty spacious, and there's one we might end up taking. (Although it has a front porch that we would have to share with the upstairs tenant...ugh). Also a place on Tillinghast that's pretty nice.
North of the park feels almost like suburbs compared with Elmwood area though. We've got four contenders south of Delaware Park:
- Gates Circle, above the Curves for Women: great looking 2nd floor apartment, secure garage parking, heat included in rent. Two doors south of Hutch's. But as Nikki from (damn, forgot the restaurant--little diner joint on west side of Elmwood with outdoor seating) said, would you actually walk anywhere from there?
- Hodge, a half block W of Delaware, third floor apt mentioned in earlier post... big heating bills and weird parking restrictions that would force us to do some jockeying on a parked-up street near the hospital. Gorgeous apartment except for the kitchen which is still OK.
- W. Utica near the corner of Norwood, a very nice and well-maintained fully updated apartment. Security system, exclusive off street parking off a common alleyway, great new appliances. First floor, though, closer to west side, and some road noise from W. Utica including the buses.
- St. James Place, a block or so in (one way street) -- the dark horse candidate. Best address of the 4 in my estimation, just a great street. Place needs work though. New homeowners and a scary kitchen, which blows b/c we like to cook. Some rooms painted wacky colors (we could change them if we're willing to paint). Old appliances, on-street parking only. Beautiful front porch.
Knowing what you know about Buffalo, how would you rank these? Any thoughts? Let 'er rip, (e:peeps).
And as always, we are most grateful for your feedback.
P.S. Drove by 444 Linwood before I left town. Looks like a nice house but never did make any arrangements to see the inside...
UPDATE: Many thanks to everyone who provided feedback...we're still deciding (Gates Circle, W Utica, Rand, or wait) and I'll post again soon with a complete report for all of you (e:peeps) who just can't get enough of the strange NJ-Buffalo saga that is unfolding...
Definately W. Utica. It's a nice area. Plus, I like the fact that I can have a few beers at the bars just up the street and not worry about having to drive home.
i'm not talking about the east side, i mean the street "main". There are a lot of good stores and services on main street. I think a lot of potential buisness is scared away beacuse they have a main street adress. and i think that's stupid. so why feed into it?
I don't see how (e:libertad) said anything about white people avoiding the other side of Main Street altogether. The other side of Main Street is obviously very different for more reasons than race as we have all mentioned, it is definetley socioeconomically different. Anyway, I generally don't recommend to others to try something I wouldn't do myself, so whose gonna make that first move and instead of living on W. Ferry, W. Delevan, W. Utica move on over to the east sides.
(e:libertad) , are you suggesting that white people avoid main street all together?
Sorry, botched the code so here's the URL: :::link:::
(e:matthew) 's comment and (e:libertad) 's follow up got me thinking about a map I had seen on the City of Buffalo's Strategic Planning site:
<a href="http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/MapDesc/AfAmBuffalo.pdf"></a>
I'm new in town so I claim no expertise, but it's striking how justified the word "segregated" is in describing the areas on either side of Main. (Well, some integrated areas in the central corridor and west side, but the numbers on the east side of Main are astonishing.) Map based on 2000 Census data.
after years of living and working on main street I would have to say that the stigma is justified. I took the "subway" constantly from south campus to the auditorium (the subway's full length) and utica and main was always the point where the most problems seemed to occur. My doctors office was at main and utica and it was dangerous. Matthew you are right about main street being the dividing line. This is very unfortunate, but I would not live on the east side of main street just for the sake of mixing races. Since Utica is a major bus line you are going to have more people coming and going than you would on linwood.
I live a block from Main street and west Ferry. So does (e:paul) and (e:terry). We've never had problems with crime or "sketchy-ness". Don't get me wrong, bad things can and do happen on main street, but as long as you use your city common sense you'll be fine. I probably wouldn't go for a stroll at 2am on main. But i'd walk it during the day and evening for sure. The problem with main street is that it's dead (business wise). There are a lot of empty buildings, so it does give off an impression of being run down and sketchy. Buffalonians are scarred of main street, i think it's time we worked towards ending that stigma. It would also do a great deal for the city's problem of segregation. Main street is used as an invisible line separating white and black communities.
first- if i'm not mistaken, norwood is like a block off ashland. So utica/norwood is not anywhere near main. (but i agree, main is sketch-city) And as I told chico- i wouldn't worry about being in a lower, and an alarm is peace of mind too. I'm maybe too little of a scaredy cat and too trusting, but I think in this area if you use some common sense you'll be fine.
hi everyone - i've escaped from my page to come over here and post on this topic - I figure since I also have a vested interest in it...ha!
Lee - a fanTAStic appraisal of the situation. Just this morning before I left for work, I was leaning toward WUtica, too. It's a lower, which isn't my first preference (*sigh* I'm a scaredy cat, admittedly). But compared to the other places, the living space is, in some cases, LEAPS and bounds better. And you're right - we'll spend a LOT of time in there come winter!!
Plus, I can see in Lee's post that some of the (e:peeps) live in that area, so it must be much more conducive to socializing!! =)
Thanks to everyone for helping out - it's kind of like being a fish out of water, since we're not from the area - but it's so tres cool to have friendly, down to earth (!) people to give you the straight story about stuff....
=)
chico's chica
I really dislike 1st floor apartments. I just find them very scary. 444 Linwood is first floor and that seems pretty safe. Utica can have its problems, I think its one of the worst parts of main street which isn't too far of. Are you checking both Artvoice and Buffalo News classifieds? Craigslist? It seems like you have some time to really get what you want. If you see anything on Ashland it is a great street to live on, very quiet, but close to all the action.
well put lee. I totally agree. You sold me!
Well, i'm willing to give my 2 cents worth... but, as i have mentioned to others, it's Canadian, so it isn't worth quite as much. :O)
Gates Circle. Sounds like it's a nice pad. However, if you are looking for a place that is right in the Elmwood 'hood, that isn't it. Not that it would be a hangout, but i think i read or heard somewhere that the Park Lane Restaurant on the other side of Gates Cirle is closing. But i digress. There is good walking around there. If you like cemetaries, Forest Lawn is a short distance and a very peaceful place to walk.
Hodge. I'm with (e:Kara) , parking this time of year doesn't seem like too big a deal this time of year, but it would be akward just after a winter snow dump. Have to shovel out your car just to move it to the other side of the street. Talk about a pain. And Children's will never have a not so busy time of day that will make it easier to park...
W. Utica. Yes, nearer the west side, but still in a decent hood. Still east of Richmond. A few short blocks from where (e:Ladycroft) , (e:Decoyisryan) and (e:Nejifer) live. And it sounds like the place itself is very nice.
St James Place. Great address. Near everything. But you still have to live inside it... and might spend a lot more time in it during the winter. Of course, if you guys like decorating and painting and being D.I.Y. types and the landlord is cool with it, you may have a fun time making it your own place. Being a rental, though, would mean leaving that all behind if you ever move.
Out of those 4 choices, if it were me, i would pick W. Utica. It's near Elmwood, within walking distance to so many places (even though that one block of Elmwood between Hodge and Utica seems to be undergoing a change). It has the good kitchen with the new appliances (i'm envious by the way.. i love our house, but i hate its kitchen.. ah, some day, the reno fairly will visit us), security and off street parking. And if the bedroom is at the back of the house, the noise won't be as bad... then again, once i fall asleep, i can sleep through most anything....
i used to live on st. james pl. i can tell you it is a great street, walking distance to everything, elmwood, delaware park, hutch's (which is right around the corner). it is a very family oriented street with block club meetings and such.
Just a note on the "jockeying on parking." I know thousands of people do it, but there is no substitute for your own driveway or parking area. It's not so bad for 3/4 of the year, but the city parking nazis are very vigilant about writing tickets, and it's $35 a pop with no real means of appeal. I've seen them write tickets on my street (which has Sun-Wed parking on one side, Wed-Sat parking on the other) less than 15 minutes past the switchover time.
Also, it's generally easier to shovel yourself out of your own driveway than it is to dig yourself out of the street when there's heavy snow. That's just my opinion, and I've been shoveling snow a long time. :)
I'd go w/ gates or w utica.
I'd take the Gates Circle one -- all the goodies of Elmwood are walkable