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Chico's Journal

chico
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06/13/2006 14:07 #21180

Bright flight
Okay, so I'm really going to hear it from the Buffalo faithful on this one, but I can't let slide a front page story in the New York Times about Buffalo...if any other (e:strip)per already blogged on this, I apologize for duplications.

So Sam Roberts' article is titled, "Flight of Young Adults is Causing Alarm Upstate." Here's the first few paras:

Upstate New York is staggering from an accelerating exodus of young adults, new census results show. The migration is turning many communities grayer, threatening the long-term viability of ailing cities and raising concerns about the state's future tax base.
From 1990 to 2004, the number of 25-to-34-year-old residents in the 52 counties north of Rockland and Putnam declined by more than 25 percent. In 13 counties that include cities like Buffalo, Syracuse and Binghamton, the population of young adults fell by more than 30 percent...
"Make no mistake: this is not business as usual," Robert G. Wilmers, the chairman of M & T Bank in Buffalo, told his shareholders this spring. "The magnitude and duration of population loss among the young is unprecedented in our history. There has never been a previous 10-year period in the history of the upstate region when there has been any decline in this most vital portion of our population."
In New York City and the five suburban counties in New York State, the number of people ages 18 to 44 increased by 1.5 percent in the 1990's. Upstate, it declined by 10 percent.



Now this is probably not news to anyone in Buffalo, or downstate for that matter. I recall a Canisius prof describing the problem to me a couple of months ago. But it is distressing.

Here's another section:

....In almost every place upstate, emigration rates were highest among college graduates, producing a brain drain, according to separate analyses of census results for The New York Times by two demographers, William Frey of the Brookings Institution and Andrew A. Beveridge of Queens College of the City University of New York. Among the nation's large metropolitan areas, Professor Frey said, Buffalo and Rochester had the highest rates of what he called "bright flight."
Irwin L. Davis, president of the Metropolitan Development Association in Syracuse, which promotes economic growth in central New York, said, "We're educating them and they're leaving."
And Gary D. Keith, vice president and regional economist for M & T Bank, said, "Sluggish job growth is the biggest driver of out-migration among young upstate adults."
The decline in the 1990's in the population ages 18 to 44 of the 52-county upstate region was "chilling," he said.
"When the jobs don't grow, the people go," Mr. Keith said.



Which is why I kid about reversing the tide ((e:chico),#1). Buffalo Rising gets a plug in the article, which is nice, but I can't wait to hear from my mentor about this one. Last time he made an observation about Buffalo to me, it was based on a NYT article about people buying dilapidated houses on the East Side sight-unseen for $8,000 and then having to spend more money to demolish them.

Where the F is Buffalo's PR department? MIA or too busy doing damage control on the casino debacle I suppose.

Anyway, no real purpose to this post, just couldn't let it go without pointing it out.
hodown - 06/13/06 15:01
Ha I beat you to it! I posted right before you. You have to get up pretty early in the morning to scoop me!

06/13/2006 00:44 #21179

I stink.
No, really, I need a shower. Too many hours practically living in and out of (e:chicoschica)'s Subaru during the past two days.

I will say one thing: you can get a lot of apartment in Buffalo for your money. And one other thing: I can see why (e:jenks) likes Spot Coffee for people watching. Wish I had more time to sit and watch the world go by... but I was busy seeing apartments.

Surprisingly, given the WTF? kind of reaction of e-:strippers to Rand Avenue, it's a nice street. Nice in a residential, tree-lined sort of way. Short walking distance to Delaware Park, a Feel-Rite, Bagel Jay's and a couple of other businesses. And a slightly longish walk to Hertel. Apartments there are pretty spacious, and there's one we might end up taking. (Although it has a front porch that we would have to share with the upstairs tenant...ugh). Also a place on Tillinghast that's pretty nice.

North of the park feels almost like suburbs compared with Elmwood area though. We've got four contenders south of Delaware Park:

  • Gates Circle, above the Curves for Women: great looking 2nd floor apartment, secure garage parking, heat included in rent. Two doors south of Hutch's. But as Nikki from (damn, forgot the restaurant--little diner joint on west side of Elmwood with outdoor seating) said, would you actually walk anywhere from there?

  • Hodge, a half block W of Delaware, third floor apt mentioned in earlier post... big heating bills and weird parking restrictions that would force us to do some jockeying on a parked-up street near the hospital. Gorgeous apartment except for the kitchen which is still OK.

  • W. Utica near the corner of Norwood, a very nice and well-maintained fully updated apartment. Security system, exclusive off street parking off a common alleyway, great new appliances. First floor, though, closer to west side, and some road noise from W. Utica including the buses.

  • St. James Place, a block or so in (one way street) -- the dark horse candidate. Best address of the 4 in my estimation, just a great street. Place needs work though. New homeowners and a scary kitchen, which blows b/c we like to cook. Some rooms painted wacky colors (we could change them if we're willing to paint). Old appliances, on-street parking only. Beautiful front porch.

Knowing what you know about Buffalo, how would you rank these? Any thoughts? Let 'er rip, (e:peeps).

And as always, we are most grateful for your feedback.

P.S. Drove by 444 Linwood before I left town. Looks like a nice house but never did make any arrangements to see the inside...


UPDATE: Many thanks to everyone who provided feedback...we're still deciding (Gates Circle, W Utica, Rand, or wait) and I'll post again soon with a complete report for all of you (e:peeps) who just can't get enough of the strange NJ-Buffalo saga that is unfolding...
carolinian - 06/13/06 19:34
Definately W. Utica. It's a nice area. Plus, I like the fact that I can have a few beers at the bars just up the street and not worry about having to drive home.
matthew - 06/13/06 18:46
i'm not talking about the east side, i mean the street "main". There are a lot of good stores and services on main street. I think a lot of potential buisness is scared away beacuse they have a main street adress. and i think that's stupid. so why feed into it?
mike - 06/13/06 18:37
I don't see how (e:libertad) said anything about white people avoiding the other side of Main Street altogether. The other side of Main Street is obviously very different for more reasons than race as we have all mentioned, it is definetley socioeconomically different. Anyway, I generally don't recommend to others to try something I wouldn't do myself, so whose gonna make that first move and instead of living on W. Ferry, W. Delevan, W. Utica move on over to the east sides.
matthew - 06/13/06 17:47
(e:libertad) , are you suggesting that white people avoid main street all together?
chico - 06/13/06 16:12
Sorry, botched the code so here's the URL: :::link:::
chico - 06/13/06 16:10
(e:matthew) 's comment and (e:libertad) 's follow up got me thinking about a map I had seen on the City of Buffalo's Strategic Planning site:
<a href="http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/MapDesc/AfAmBuffalo.pdf"></a>

I'm new in town so I claim no expertise, but it's striking how justified the word "segregated" is in describing the areas on either side of Main. (Well, some integrated areas in the central corridor and west side, but the numbers on the east side of Main are astonishing.) Map based on 2000 Census data.
libertad - 06/13/06 15:22
after years of living and working on main street I would have to say that the stigma is justified. I took the "subway" constantly from south campus to the auditorium (the subway's full length) and utica and main was always the point where the most problems seemed to occur. My doctors office was at main and utica and it was dangerous. Matthew you are right about main street being the dividing line. This is very unfortunate, but I would not live on the east side of main street just for the sake of mixing races. Since Utica is a major bus line you are going to have more people coming and going than you would on linwood.
matthew - 06/13/06 14:10
I live a block from Main street and west Ferry. So does (e:paul) and (e:terry). We've never had problems with crime or "sketchy-ness". Don't get me wrong, bad things can and do happen on main street, but as long as you use your city common sense you'll be fine. I probably wouldn't go for a stroll at 2am on main. But i'd walk it during the day and evening for sure. The problem with main street is that it's dead (business wise). There are a lot of empty buildings, so it does give off an impression of being run down and sketchy. Buffalonians are scarred of main street, i think it's time we worked towards ending that stigma. It would also do a great deal for the city's problem of segregation. Main street is used as an invisible line separating white and black communities.
jenks - 06/13/06 12:50
first- if i'm not mistaken, norwood is like a block off ashland. So utica/norwood is not anywhere near main. (but i agree, main is sketch-city) And as I told chico- i wouldn't worry about being in a lower, and an alarm is peace of mind too. I'm maybe too little of a scaredy cat and too trusting, but I think in this area if you use some common sense you'll be fine.
chicoschica - 06/13/06 11:47
hi everyone - i've escaped from my page to come over here and post on this topic - I figure since I also have a vested interest in it...ha!

Lee - a fanTAStic appraisal of the situation. Just this morning before I left for work, I was leaning toward WUtica, too. It's a lower, which isn't my first preference (*sigh* I'm a scaredy cat, admittedly). But compared to the other places, the living space is, in some cases, LEAPS and bounds better. And you're right - we'll spend a LOT of time in there come winter!!

Plus, I can see in Lee's post that some of the (e:peeps) live in that area, so it must be much more conducive to socializing!! =)

Thanks to everyone for helping out - it's kind of like being a fish out of water, since we're not from the area - but it's so tres cool to have friendly, down to earth (!) people to give you the straight story about stuff....

=)
chico's chica

libertad - 06/13/06 11:47
I really dislike 1st floor apartments. I just find them very scary. 444 Linwood is first floor and that seems pretty safe. Utica can have its problems, I think its one of the worst parts of main street which isn't too far of. Are you checking both Artvoice and Buffalo News classifieds? Craigslist? It seems like you have some time to really get what you want. If you see anything on Ashland it is a great street to live on, very quiet, but close to all the action.
jenks - 06/13/06 11:24
well put lee. I totally agree. You sold me!
leetee - 06/13/06 10:26
Well, i'm willing to give my 2 cents worth... but, as i have mentioned to others, it's Canadian, so it isn't worth quite as much. :O)

Gates Circle. Sounds like it's a nice pad. However, if you are looking for a place that is right in the Elmwood 'hood, that isn't it. Not that it would be a hangout, but i think i read or heard somewhere that the Park Lane Restaurant on the other side of Gates Cirle is closing. But i digress. There is good walking around there. If you like cemetaries, Forest Lawn is a short distance and a very peaceful place to walk.

Hodge. I'm with (e:Kara) , parking this time of year doesn't seem like too big a deal this time of year, but it would be akward just after a winter snow dump. Have to shovel out your car just to move it to the other side of the street. Talk about a pain. And Children's will never have a not so busy time of day that will make it easier to park...

W. Utica. Yes, nearer the west side, but still in a decent hood. Still east of Richmond. A few short blocks from where (e:Ladycroft) , (e:Decoyisryan) and (e:Nejifer) live. And it sounds like the place itself is very nice.

St James Place. Great address. Near everything. But you still have to live inside it... and might spend a lot more time in it during the winter. Of course, if you guys like decorating and painting and being D.I.Y. types and the landlord is cool with it, you may have a fun time making it your own place. Being a rental, though, would mean leaving that all behind if you ever move.

Out of those 4 choices, if it were me, i would pick W. Utica. It's near Elmwood, within walking distance to so many places (even though that one block of Elmwood between Hodge and Utica seems to be undergoing a change). It has the good kitchen with the new appliances (i'm envious by the way.. i love our house, but i hate its kitchen.. ah, some day, the reno fairly will visit us), security and off street parking. And if the bedroom is at the back of the house, the noise won't be as bad... then again, once i fall asleep, i can sleep through most anything....
imk2 - 06/13/06 09:26
i used to live on st. james pl. i can tell you it is a great street, walking distance to everything, elmwood, delaware park, hutch's (which is right around the corner). it is a very family oriented street with block club meetings and such.
kara - 06/13/06 08:19
Just a note on the "jockeying on parking." I know thousands of people do it, but there is no substitute for your own driveway or parking area. It's not so bad for 3/4 of the year, but the city parking nazis are very vigilant about writing tickets, and it's $35 a pop with no real means of appeal. I've seen them write tickets on my street (which has Sun-Wed parking on one side, Wed-Sat parking on the other) less than 15 minutes past the switchover time.
Also, it's generally easier to shovel yourself out of your own driveway than it is to dig yourself out of the street when there's heavy snow. That's just my opinion, and I've been shoveling snow a long time. :)
I'd go w/ gates or w utica.
mrmike - 06/13/06 07:15
I'd take the Gates Circle one -- all the goodies of Elmwood are walkable

06/10/2006 16:29 #21178

Anyone familiar with Hodge Ave? Help!
Well, I'm still deliberating the trip to B-lo this weekend. A phone call in response to an ad for a 2 bedroom led to an interesting twist.
The 2 bdrm is gone, but a 3 bdrm apt on Hodge Ave near the Children's Hospital is coming available and it would be perfect timing for our August move-in date.

The location is on Hodge about a block west of Delaware. The apt is a huge (2200 sq ft) 3 bdrm on the 3rd floor and has 2 full baths, 2 working fireplaces, functional kitchen (important for us!), in-unit washer and dryer, off-street parking, and apparently is in "immaculate" condition. Allegedly, the balanced billing for heat runs $110-$120 and electric around $40.

The current tenants have apparently lived there 6 years and are leaving to move to NYC.

The neighbors on the first and second floors are single professionals, the one on the first floor has a well behaved dog (a lab) and the one on the 2nd floor apparently travels a lot.

It's pricey (near the top of our range, but manageable) but we have been assured it is a quiet unit on a nice street.

Any comments from the local experts on the Elmwood area?

Is it definitely worth looking at, maybe to grab it before it hits the market (plannng to list it in AV this week)? Or let it ride...? And what should I make of Hodge Ave just west of Delaware? How long a walk to good stuff on Elmwood, etc.?

Also, any thoughts on Rand Avenue in N. Buffalo? Cheaper options with garages up that way, and near Delaware Park.

--Chico



chico - 06/10/06 22:29
thanks (e:terry), (e:kookcity2000), (e:paul) and (e:jenks) for the helpful advice! definitely will check out the Hodge apt tomorrow. full report to come... chico
jenks - 06/10/06 21:05
yeah i'll chime in too. I would take the hodge place. I have a friend that lives at 77 hodge, and another friend lives right next door I think. actually i can ask them if they know anything about this place. Good area, close enough to everything... Tons of restaurants near children's, plus Faherty's. I would definitely take it over Rand (which I've never heard of.) If you go north of the park, all you have is.... the park. If you stay south, you can still get to the park, but also have all the restaurants, etc.

Correction- I would SEE the hodge place before taking it. SOUNDS great, but sometimes landlords exaggerate...
paul - 06/10/06 20:48
Hodge is a great street. I would definitely jump on that, if it's in your range.

Although, when are you moving exactly? We live in a fantastic (ask anyone on the site) apartment at 444 linwood. It is around $1000 but includes utilities. We are moving around August.
terry - 06/10/06 16:56
Hodge is a pretty nice st. Pretty near everything...you've actually got 3 or 5 good restaurants within 5 mins. walk, then a couple more mins to get to the Spot area on Elmwood. Only concern I might have is parking and hospital traffic, but if it has off-street you should be okay. What exactly is expensive? We have the front half of a mansion, not sure square footage, with two beds/2 full baths and a fireplace, though its non-functioning. We pay $1100 but is includes everything (a great plus here).

My opionion on Rand is that it's a bit too far. While it's possible to get to Elmwood it's a pretty long jaunt, though you can go through the park... I'm not sure about the exact street, if I remember I'll check it out next time I get around there. For me the ideal square is like Richmond-Linwood (E-W) and Forest-Bryant (N-S) if you want real "Elmwood-living" and extend down to Allen if you don't mind living in Allentown, which has it's own charm.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck.

06/09/2006 15:29 #21177

Fountainhead

OK, so what's the deal with (MAP TO: RAND%20AVENUE)? Why do I have three appointments to see apartments on this little street between Delaware, Amherst, and Hertel?

Is it a depressing little street that people can't wait to leave?
Is it noisy? (there are train tracks 2 blocks away...do freight trains run through there all night long?)

Anyway I can hardly help but to be suspicious.... Hmm.

Other places I'm considering north of Delaware Park: a 3 br on Tillinghast Pl, and a 2 br on North Dr.(north of Hertel, off Parkside).

Nearer to Elmwood I'm looking at something on W. Delevan near Chapin Pkwy, on W. Utica near Norwood, and an expensive apt overlooking Gates Circle.

Comments welcomed...

P.S. thanks to (e:Jenks), (e:Leetee), (e:Kara) et al for the latest encouraging emails :-)
imk2 - 06/09/06 22:13
oh and i would stick to the elmwood area. youre still walking distance to delaware park PLUS all the eateries and festivals and the farmers market and shakespeare in the park (which is the second largest in the country).
imk2 - 06/09/06 19:21
fountainhead used to be one of my favorite books.

06/09/2006 10:08 #21176

damn, you people are nice...
...what planet are you from? Being a newcomer I figured I wouldn't get much of a response to my post but instead I'm happily inundated with notes from (e:zobar), (e:joshua), (e:kara), (e:carolinian), (e:libertad), (e:hodown), and (e:dragonlady7)...many thanks to all!

I really appreciate the help with the apartment search...the gf and I were looking all over town a couple of weekends ago and decided that we're most interested in the areas relatively close to Delaware Park...gf is jazzed about the Bidwell Parkway area (in part b/c it's close to Caffe Aroma); I'm still strongly considering other parts of Elmwood Village, but we're also thinking about areas north of Delaware Park too... we're trying to find a quiet street, gf gets up early and likes to get her beauty rest. ;-)

Was thinking about bombing on up to B-lo this weekend to look for apts and to check out the Allentown art festival... but I'm getting the sense that I'm a little early for my target move-in date of August 1... most of the folks advertising in AV are looking for 7/1... any thoughts? Would I be wasting time/gas money by making the trip this weekend?

Thanks again, Chico
kara - 06/09/06 16:41
leetee- i think it's the north park theater. It's right across the street from the Stock Exchange, an awesome furniture store that chico and the woman (sorry, couldn't resist) should check out to outfit their new digs.
leetee - 06/09/06 13:44
Early welcome, (e:Chico) and (e:Chico)'s girlfriend! :O)

My husband and i, (e:Uncutsaniflush) are farily new to Buffalo as well. Been about a year and a half now.

The Hertel Street area, between Elmwood and Colvin and maybe even through to Starin, has a lot of rentals down the side streets, i think. Might want to check out that area if you're looking to be above Delaware Park. Most are doubles, as they call them 'round here, or as other places say, duplexes. Our realtor owns a house and rents out the top half.. and the people that used to live in the house my husband and i bought moved to that area. There's a cool movie theatre up there... oh, i think it's called North something. Man, i am bad with names. Sorry. Coupla good places to eat 'round there, too. I recommend Taste Of Thai if you like Thai food.

OK, now that was a ramble. More than i intended it to be.

Oh, but before i forget. Coffee places. I'm not one for hanging out at coffee places in general, but a lot of the (e:peeps) 'round here hang at Spot, which is a block or two south of Aroma. Oddly enough, Armoma was a place my husband and i went to when we were visitors before we moved here...
kara - 06/09/06 12:52
Lots of quiet streets to the north of 198 and east of Parkside - not sure about the rental availability there, though.
:::link:::

jenks - 06/09/06 10:14
Yeah, we're a nice bunch... welcome. :)
Bidwell is beautiful (I drove up and down over and over when I was looking for a place, hoping a "for rent" sign would miraculously appear). But there are lots of nice places. I think the guidelines I were given are good- I'd recommend the area bounded by Forest to the North, Allen to the South, Richmond to the West, and Delaware to the East. Or Linwood.

All of that is pretty near Aroma. (though personally I prefer Spot (further down elmwood)).

You might be a little early to find a place for 8/1, but at the same time it might be a good idea to get a feel for the area in advance, so when you ARE seeing places your head is clear on what's where, etc.