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Tinypliny's Journal

tinypliny
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09/04/2011 19:11 #55091

Shower soap
Category: chemicals
Hmm. more chemicals that I don't know about in my shower soap:

  • Sodium laureth sulfate
  • Cocamidopropyl Betaine
  • Polyquarternium-7
  • Glycol Stearate
  • Decyl Glucoside
  • Hydroxypropyl
  • Methylcellulose
  • Sodium PCA
  • tetrasodium edta ( this is a chelating agent, it prevents blood from clotting. I guess it must be preventing clumping here. but what effect does it have on the skin? how potent is this?)
  • triethanolamine
  • methylchloroisothiazolinone
  • methylisothiazolinone

Probably okay
  • Water (Well of course)
  • Sodium Chloride (ditto for this)
  • Butyrospermium Parkii (Shea Butter)
  • Panthenol (Pro Vitamin B5)
  • fragrance
  • citric acid

The list is the scariest because I really have no idea about some of these.

paul - 09/04/11 19:58
You can totally buy bath stuff with very few ingredients or make your own.

09/04/2011 18:55 #55090

Palmolive dish washing liquid
Category: chemicals
The label is not on the bottle of dishwashing fluid so I had to look this one up on the Colgate website

:

  • Water: Consistency
  • Ammonium C12-15 Pareth Sulfate: Cleaning and Foaming Agent
  • SD Alcohol 3-A: Controls Thickness and Clarity
  • Lauramidopropylamine Oxide: Cleaning and Foaming Agent
  • Sodium Chloride: Controls Thickness (okay, this is salt)
  • Magnesium Sulfate: Controls Thickness
  • Fragrance: Pleasant Scent
  • Poloxamer 124: Controls Thickness
  • Pentasodium Pentatate: Maintains Product Stability
  • Preservative: Maintains Product Freshness
  • Sodium Bisulfite: Maintains Product Stability
  • Dyes: Color - yeah, what exactly?


I don't know about many of these chemicals. Their descriptions seem tame enough but who knows what lies beneath. I am somewhat rushed for time to verify each thing on that list. So there it is. I am exposed on a daily basis to these and I actually like washing dishes.

09/04/2011 13:09 #55088

Italian Raisin Bread
Category: chemicals
Italian Raisin Bread baked in a brick oven. Distributed by Mastroianni Brothers Bakery Incorporated (518) 355-5310
51 Opus Blvd, Schenectady, NY 12306
  • Potassium Bromate.



Good grief. I am merrily eating this while it has been banned in Sri Lanka and China and has escaped a ban here because of a bureaucratic regulation loophole.

In the United States, it has not been banned. The FDA sanctioned the use of bromate before the Delaney clause of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act—which bans potentially carcinogenic substances— went into effect in 1958, so it is more difficult for it to now be banned. Instead, since 1991 the FDA has urged bakers to voluntarily stop using it. In California a warning label is required when bromated flour is used.



I am on the last slice. It's delicious but I am placing a personal kitchen ban effective from the next minute. And I just wrote to the store to consider discontinuing this bread.
paul - 09/04/11 13:56
Yuck. However, just because its regulated in China doesn't mean anyone follows that. I mean I am sure lead is regulated in children's toys and melamine is not a legitamate protein filler - enough said.

I wonder if you would find that in any local bread. I think as soon as you need to transport bread large distances chemicals are required. Best thing would be self baked of local bakery.

Maybe we should drop out of our respective careers and start a chemical free food store.

09/04/2011 11:34 #55085

The product label project.
Category: chemicals
I have wanted to do this for the longest time. It's completely boring to anyone except me but I want to maintain a running list of every single chemical I apply on my skin or eat that I don't know about. It's fascinating how much chemicals dominate our lives.

I pretend that I am avoiding a ton of it by religiously reading labels to everything I consider buying. But I do end up getting stuff to eat or cosmetics that have unknown compounds in them. I don't know what the roles of these chemicals are or what they are capable of messing up in my body. I place my blind trust in the fact that they can't be excessively harmful because *someone out there* is definitely regulating them.

Fact is, there is very little regulation. Products that proudly proclaim that they are not been tested on animals actually scare me. I get all the arguments of PETA and animal rights activists and their gory pictures of animal suffering are shocking. But let's face it. At some point, we need to draw the line at just how much we want to compromise safety and health for humans in favour of "humane treatment of animals". Scientific research has primarily reached its current status because we could use animals to test our experiments.

We cannot emulate the living system otherwise. We cannot foresee the consequences of chemicals on living systems if we have never tested them on any. You cannot persuade me that reactions that you have seen on cell cultures come close to what happens in real life. My cynicism stems from first hand experience of the limitations of non-living systems for experimentation. It seems so paradoxical to me that we have such complicated and expensive clinical trials for drugs consumed by a minority sick population and yet NO regulation or trials for products that a vast majority of the general population uses and consumes daily and all the time. Prevention is definitely nowhere in the agenda here.

Another alternative is of course to use just edible and known natural substances in everything. While this is a logical and perfect alternative to the dilemmas of animal testing, it is also sometimes not very practical in today's world where products are global rather than local in their distribution and audience.

Anyway, I just ate some hummus:
It had "less than 0.5% of":
  • Sorbic Acid
  • Sodium Benzoate
  • Phosphoric Acid

Preservatives. But why can't salt and olive oil suffice? Maybe I need to just make my own Hummus from (e:libertad)'s awesome (secret?) recipe.
tinypliny - 09/05/11 11:52
I agree with you, but forcing any subset of population, be it prisoners or grad students to take part in drug testing borders on what Nazis did back in the day. Cruelty to any living being is wrong be it animals or humans but is there any other alternative? This is where people come up with "there is always cell culture, there is always cadaver skin" etc. These are NOT living systems. We are not capable of creating life in the laboratory yet. There has to be compromise somewhere. Call me selfish or call me "species-cist", but being a human, I vote in favour of NOT subjecting humans to cruelty.
metalpeter - 09/05/11 11:30
don't get me wrong I'm not a crazy PETA member but do think that cruelty is wrong... That being said you can kill an animal and eat it in a non cruel way.... I know that it is unethical to grab prisoners (bet they do it in china though) and force testing on them... but if they are guilty and really guilty not this eh I didn't do anything that happens sometimes... Why not offer them time off for time in medical testing you know the dangerous stuff that you would want to try on an animal that doesn't have all the same biology as humans.......
tinypliny - 09/05/11 10:08
Yes! They do pay people to take part in trials. :) In fact, believe it or not, some people are career "trialists". Many grad student make small money out of taking part in studies. You are right in saying that all living systems are not equivalent. However, some testing is better than no testing at all. When products proclaim that there has been no animal testing, it inspires ZERO confidence in my and I immediately place it back. I'd rather see things like dermatologist-approved or some such comment OR chemicals/ingredient lists that I know about.
tinypliny - 09/05/11 10:04
Yes, I prefer that there are no substitutions. If it is non-fat (apart from some really simple things like milk), manufacturers do add in other things to compensate. Not all non-fat/low-fat/low-sugar/low-salt stuff has substituted chemicals though. I literally read all the labels before making a decision to buy. Grocery shopping is often an intense speed-reading trip for me. But things like the potassium bromate does slip through, which is why I am posting here. I want to be more familiar with what I am consuming.

Yes, containers do leach out into food. I try not to heat plastics in the microwave. Glass/ceramic/stainless steel (for stovetop/baking) are my materials of choice. Plastics are all over the place however, it's hard to assess their complete effects because of difficulties in measurement.
metalpeter - 09/05/11 10:01
  1. 3 Animal Testing... (maybe part of this is a just saw on Friday Rise of the Planet of the apes oh gawd a lot of it was so sad it really was...Or maybe something is just wrong with me...Good movie though) Never makes any sense to me and here is why.....

I have this idea or theory on this drug and here is what it is supposed to do and have this effect so lets see what it does in an animal.... Now I get that there are things that can be deadly you don't know about or things you can perfect... But here is where the problem lies for me.... The Biology is different so if something works or doesn't it then would have to be altered cause a chimp or rabbit or rat or Lemur or what ever isn't a human.... So as bad as this sounds just go right to human testing... Yes I get that side effects and that kind of thing only happen to some people because we all don't have the exact same make up... But also shouldn't medicine or cosmetics be tested on sick people as well.... How will they be effected?

Now some would say that isn't ethical but why not as a starting point offer people who are sick in some form full payment of any medical bills from illness past and future as payment for being the animal....
metalpeter - 09/05/11 09:53
  1. 2.... Don't think there is a way for you to study this in your home life but what about containers.... Yes once something in a can is opened or even when not opening it putting it in a fridge is bad... But even with out that wonder how much stuff from cans, bottles, and bags works its way into the food... I'm guessing glass is the safest... but this could be true of re heating things as well (more along the lines of microwaves ) can't that container become part of the food and the food part of that container...
metalpeter - 09/05/11 09:49
Comment One of I think about 3.... Avoiding Chemicals is a good idea but not sure how possible it is... As an example there is this claim of things being Healthy... Like fat free or low fat or low Sodium or sugar free.. Well though if you take that stuff out you need something else in its place... Every chemical Sugar in some form (high heat like is setting in the bed of a truck or being stored in a garage hot enough not sure)... But some things when you take fat out to keep the same feel and taste something else has to be added and most times I'm guessing it is chemicals.....
paul - 09/04/11 13:59
I thought I remembered reading it only occurred at warm temperatures such that refrigerated soda was not as much an issue as warm pop. Personally I am equally as paranoid about the plastic bottles. Whatever bleaches put of that crap is not even on the label.
tinypliny - 09/04/11 13:29
I meant ascorbic acid, not citric acid - both of which are naturally found in fruits and are not a health risk per se.
tinypliny - 09/04/11 13:28
Hmm.. the benzene is formed via reaction with citric acid. I wonder what sorbic acid and phosphoric acid are reacting to form with sodium benzoate. Disturbing.
tinypliny - 09/04/11 12:48
Nice. Now I feel I like I should dump the rest of the hummus in the garbage. Actually, I don't quite like the artichoke in it. Tastes iffy unlike the awesome (e:libertad)'s version.
paul - 09/04/11 12:15
This is a great idea. I really, really try to avoid things with chemicals other than the medicines I take. I realize you can't control everything but I can't tell you home many things I don't eat because of Sodium Benzoate after I read about how it forms benezine :::link:::

09/03/2011 10:52 #55079

rcconf - Debian runlevel Configuration
Category: linux
With a thing called rcconf, I can see these are the things running on startup of my system

│ [*] alsa-utils
│ [*] anacron
│ [*] aumix
│ [*] bluetooth
│ [*] bootlogs
│ [*] console-setup
│ [*] cron
│ [*] dbus
│ [*] fancontrol
│ [*] fuse
│ [*] hal
│ [*] hddtemp
│ [*] hdparm
│ [*] kbd
│ [*] keyboard-setup
│ [*] live-boot
│ [*] live-config
│ [*] lm-sensors
│ [*] module-init-tools
│ [*] network-manager
│ [*] openvpn
│ [*] plymouth
│ [*] pppd-dns
│ [*] procps
│ [*] rsync
│ [*] rsyslog
│ [*] sudo
│ [*] udev
│ [*] x11-common

I guess I can disable the ones in blue.. How about the others? What are these things anyway?!
tinypliny - 09/04/11 12:08
I promise I have stopped thinking about it! In fact I have completely laid off messing with my system after comment #64760. I just got lazy and didn't update this post.
paul - 09/04/11 11:57
I think you have to stop thinking about what is useful to you. I am not saying this is for sure the case with the audio mixer service but there is a good chance something else might expect it and then freak out when its not there. I doubt it really uses any resources when not in use.
tinypliny - 09/04/11 11:48
LOL, you are tougher than I thought. It's done now! :) aumix is in blue because it's not really useful to me. System76 has THE WORST soundcard and I seldom use this comp for anything media related anyway. Sound is rock-bottom to say the list. Who cares about mixer levels in that pit of mediocrity?
paul - 09/04/11 11:38
Why is the blue not coming off cron and anacron?
uncutsaniflush - 09/03/11 12:41
i would disable bluetooth, openvpn (unless you do virtual private networking), and pppd-dns (unless you use dail-up). I'm with (e:paul) you do NOT want to disable anacron and cron. Bad shit could happen.
tinypliny - 09/03/11 12:04
seems like it could be problematic with a live system using that tool: :::link:::
paul - 09/03/11 11:54
use dd and clone the drive to an external one that you can restore from later. Thats a long process that requires lots of storage but it might be faster than always rebuilding. A virtual machine on the other hand it would take like 30 seconds and store just the differences.
tinypliny - 09/03/11 11:40
Hold on! that's a fabulous thought. Is there a way to do a snapshot of this real one?
paul - 09/03/11 11:39
If you were using virtual machines his would be a great place for a snapshot.
tinypliny - 09/03/11 11:33
Valid points. I am stopping the removing right now. :) It definitely does not contribute in any way to my work at all. It's kind of annoying as it is too much information. I am determined to be happier with how things are right now because they are working well for now. The weird selection problem has gone away with this new install and I want to keep it that way.

I don't know yet about the party.. Could you please message me the address? I will see where I am @ 8:00 PM today.
paul - 09/03/11 11:27
Why are you obsessed with removing everything? I believe this is the root of your problem - besides maybe a hardware issue. Is the system too slow? I bet not - why not just leave a default crunchbang install and see how that goes. Stop removing stuff because you are actually making it way harder to figure out what is wrong by introducing way too many variables into the situation.

It sound to me like you are obsessing on this stuff to avoid your real work but then you justify it by saying, this somehow contributes to your real work. Clearly, the benefits are not paying off it you have to keep reinstalling your os.

Live-config appears to be "live-config contains the scripts that configure a Debian Live system during
the boot process (late userspace)."

That doesn't sound like something you would want to remove.anacron/cron is the service that runs scheduled tasks. You can use it in awesome ways and the OS probably uses it for log rotation or other stuff that needs to happen on schedule.

Off topic - are you going to the party tonight?