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Joshua's Journal

joshua
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11/30/2009 12:59 #50414

Illegal Immigrants and Healthcare
Right. Remember Joe Wilson? He's the Representative from SC who shouted out "YOU LIE!" after Prez Obama stated that in no way would his health bill provide a mechanism for coverage for illegal immigrants. Oh, how the left wanted to draw and quarter this man for being so preposterous to St. Barack. How rude!

Not that some of us didn't suspect it anyway, but it turns out that Joe Wilson was right. Why is Barack Obama breaking this pledge, that he uttered so clearly and so vociferously - who was vigorously defended when an elected politician pointed out he was full of shit?



Of course, this has been studied in great detail. My favorite justification - well, it's not a problem with the bill - it's the employers who are breaking the law by hiring illegals!

Now, I'll start the tape recorder - let the choruses of "RAAAHAHH THERE"S NO BILL SIGNED INTO LAW YET ERAAHHEHHSS" flow.
metalpeter - 12/01/09 19:35
People are paid under the table but not only illegals. Then there are some illegals who are paid under the table as well. Then there are some places where it is kinda ify like a truck pulls up people hope and and how ever many people fit on that truck get the labor job for that day. Then there is one other kind and those are the ones that come over and work off their debt, think of asain or other parlors. I think the tax concern is for undocumented Alliens. But in a way they would pay taxes to on any thing they buy.

In Terms of keeping campagn promises the bottom line is no one does. They run on this platform then once they get in office they instead of doing what they said they would do get all these so called expert advisors and then do what they say would be the thing to do. Barrack is no different then any of the other people who have been president.
jenks - 12/01/09 18:26
thanks for the input guys. I stand corrected. I guess I always thought illegals were paid under the table. I just sort of figured if they're not in the country legally, you can't really put them on the payroll. Guess that's where I'm wrong.
terry - 12/01/09 17:47
I will confirm that most aliens do indeed pay taxes. The big one is the payroll tax, that's your SS/Medicare (sometimes called FICA) that you see on your paycheck. It is deducted from their wages as well, and, I will add, unless they become legal they will never see any benefit from having paid it. Unlike Fed/State tax you cannot claim exempt from the payroll tax.

Most also have federal/state taxes deducted as well. I would surmise a couple reasons:
1) it is difficult and/or suspicious to claim exempt, especially if you're trying to avoid detection.
2) many do actually pay the taxes they owe on the income they earn...perhaps they are stupid, or perhaps they really are trying to 'do the right thing' and contribute to the society they are living in.

I get to talk to some of these guys once in a while at my job, and mot of them seem more than willing to pay the taxes that they owe from the income that they make (this is of course anecdotal). It is also a requisite of becoming a citizen that you do pay the taxes you owe for a number of years on all income earned while living here.

What I don't quite understand about this argument is that from what I see the problem is that employers are going to be providing more insurance and because they may employ illegals they will also be insured. Am I getting that right? And if so, isn't this a separate problem about getting illegal aliens off payrolls? I mean if you have a problem with a govt funded/run program, then isn't an employer-provided option better? And perhaps this minor (and I'm saying minor because I can't believe that more than a very small percentage of affected workers will be illegals) problem should be dealt with through existing routes, ie: NIS refrom or whatever instead of by attempting to use it as another route to derail the healthcare debate?
ajay - 11/30/09 16:09
Wow, (e:joshua). Washington Times?? LOL.

Illegal aliens do pay taxes. Even if the company is employing them illegally, they just use a fake SSN to do the withholding. Companies don't mind risking the ICE's wrath; but the IRS? Fuggedaboutit. You pay the IRS before you pay the mafia.

Now, to your question about benefits for illegals? I agree with you that they shouldn't get the benefits they're not entitled to.

But, I'll throw a couple of things out as discussion points:
1. Illegals will resort to going to the emergency rooms. Is that better or worse?
2. As a society, we all benefit if everyone has access to healthcare. Otherwise, the people who don't could be carrying around various diseases (for example, TB) which can bite us in the ass. I'm not an epidemiologist, so I can't say if this is a valid concern or not, but in my naive thinking it sounds like one.

And don't forget: it was your God, Ronald H. Reagan, who gave amnesty to illegals in 1986. So before you start accusing Democrats of shenanigans, a look at a decent reflecting surface would be in order ;-)

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving!
james - 11/30/09 15:41
But the article mentioned Senator Reid's office said there would be a provision preventing them getting benefits but also a fee levied against employers for them. So, I still don't see where the beef is in the author's argument. They offer information that undermines the thesis and then a non sequitur swoops in to save the day?

Undocumented workers pay taxes just like we do.
1)Sales tax when they buy things
2)Property tax when they pay rent
3)Income tax via a TIN (tax identification number) either through their employer or voluntarily on their own
joshua - 11/30/09 15:29
Jay - since Andy Stern and SEIU had a front row seat in health care negotiations and has visited the WH more than anybody else, you can bet that SEIU will be intricately involved in any immigration legislation that moves through Congress. SEIU has Obama in their back pockets and he is pretty much a shill for organized labor. I can't see otherwise how you could circumvent long established contract law and tell debtholders to screw off, just to simply give away tens of billions to the labor unions in Detroit, for example. (An Obama move that 75% of Americans opposed). It's clear that Obama and the Democrats have similiar plans in store for the SEIU and the immigration debate, public opinion be damned.
joshua - 11/30/09 15:23
Whether or not they pay taxes is irrelevant - if you are an illegal alien, I fail to see how it is that you can legally pay taxes, unless somebody around here could enlighten me. After all, how do you pay taxes without a valid SSID#, EIN#, green card, etc., or any legal authorization to work? How do you obtain authorization to work when you aren't legally established in the country? What the article says is that roughly half of the illegal immigrants pay taxes (the legality of which can be debated), and that the other half do not pay taxes because they simply are paid off the books.

No, the President's stated objective was that illegal immigrants would not be covered in the bill. Clearly that was a lie and it appears that no Democrats have an interest in stopping it, including the President, as a) there are really no provisions either bill that could expressly do so, b) Republicans had no input in either bill, so Demos have really got nobody to blame except their own ideas on the topic and the will of the people, which they have openly disregarded unless it suits their ideology, and c) yes, next year Congress will be attempting to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants, which really is amazing considering that it appears they believe that the healthcare bill/illegal alien squabbling will simply go away if they legalize them all!
jason - 11/30/09 15:18
Alex. The reason why it would be considered is the Democrats want more votes, more constituents. The cynical part of me thinks Andy Stern is licking his chops at the prospect of fighting for their wages (and his dues) when they become legitimized. They don't particularly care if the law is broken. That is literally dead last on their list of concerns. Someone who is "dangerous" to them is an 80 year old Gramma, false teeth clattering in her mouth while yelling at a Congressman. Don't ever believe a politician, especially one with a growing track record of being full of shit.

james - 11/30/09 15:07
illegal immigrants do pay taxes. Many don't pay income tax because they are hired illegally, though the article indicates that roughly half do. But, that is really not relevant.

So, if I understand this article, because immigration reform might be coming the health care bill somehow doesn't meet the President's stated objective?

Rev. Moon's paper is truly stellar journalism.
jbeatty - 11/30/09 14:09
I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't pay taxes. But I agree you should be a citizen to benefit from any sort of government program.
jenks - 11/30/09 13:49
Ok, perhaps I'm vastly oversimplifying, so please- someone explain it to me.

As I see it-
Illegal aliens are here (ahem) illegally.
they do not pay taxes.

Why is providing them with taxpayer-funded healthcare even being CONSIDERED?

11/25/2009 17:43 #50379

Ouch... the left "strikes" again!
Unhinged left wingers across America blamed this census worker's death on tea party types because he had the word "fed" scrawled across his chest -



It was a suicide. Oh, how the firestorm of media coverage just blew up in their collective faces. Can we stop with this crap someday?
uncutsaniflush - 11/26/09 10:36
Just in case I wasn't clear, I agree with you - (e:joshua).Any credible analysis of the situation that assumed foul-play would first have to consider that the census worker blundered into an area with illegal activity - either moonshining or marijuana farming. Based upon my familiarity with the area that is what I thought happened. The "tea party" "right wing backlash against the government didn't even cross my mind. To me, there was never any credible basis to believe such a thing.
joshua - 11/26/09 10:27
Well, this is my biggest problem with this - liberal commentators and bloggers blamed the right wing with really no single shred of evidence, other than whatever it is that they derived from their own biases.

Examples -

Andrew Sullivan, Sept. 26, 2009: "No Suicide: That's the one thing we know for certain now in the case of the Kentucky lynching...But the most worrying possibility - that this is Southern populist terrorism, whipped up by the GOP and its Fox and talk radio cohorts - remains real."

Ed Schultz show Sept. 28, 2009: "It didn't sound real good. My wife and I were traveling on the East Coast this weekend, in the car for three hours. We haven`t done that for a while.

Let me tell you, right-wing rhetoric in this country has reached a boiling point. Oh, the government`s the enemy. Every kind of government, local, regional, state...

Republicans have always tried to make the government the bogeyman. No matter what the subject, it`s the government's fault. But this is out of control. The fever pitch we`re experiencing in this country right now, I think has got a lot of people nervous.

A census worker, somebody doing a part-time job for the government, for America -- we`ve had the census in this country for 210 years. This man`s name was Bill Sparkman. He was found dead in Kentucky.

Most of his clothes had been stripped off and his census identification tag, it was Duct Taped to his body, and the word "Fed` had been written across his chest. Investigators don`t know who killed Mr. Sparkman and what the motive was. They still aren`t certain it was a homicide.

A lot of things playing into this right now. But we do know that census workers are afraid to go to work right now."

Mark Potok, Director of the Southern Poverty Law Center on MSNBC's "The Ed Show, Sept. 24, 2009: "I think the bottom line is it's a very rural area, and these are the kinds of areas where sometimes, you know, real white hot anti-government sentiment thrives. I think it's probably worth saying that I know that back in `95, immediately after the Oklahoma City bombing, I remember "USA Today" did a poll and found that 39 percent of Americans at that time felt that the federal government was an imminent threat to their liberties as Americans. Quite incredible.

I think that we are at a similar point in history right now, you know, where we've seen this anti-government sentiment very much whipped up by militia certainly but also the whole scene that we've seen develop around town halls and so forth."

Allison Kilkenny, Huffpo: "This is the kind of violent event that emerges from a culture of paranoia and unsubstantiated attacks. Personalities like Glenn Beck have irresponsibly accused the government of running FEMA concentration camps, and constantly stoke the fear of 'the Feds' taking over."

I could go on. Rachael Maddow, videos from People for the American Way, Village Voice, Diane Sawyer, Brian Levin, etc. Each one with a gallon of egg on their faces today.
uncutsaniflush - 11/26/09 09:41
(e:joshua), there is a strong anti-government ("fed") feeling amongst many in rural Kentucky and other appalachia states that dates back to Reconstruction or Prohibition or both. Additionally, there are still many illegal stills manufacturing 'shine. And the moonshiners don't take kindly to federal agents searching for and destroying their stills. And that is what the suicide worker was trying to use to his advantage. Anyone familiar with rural Appalachia would know that most in those areas ignore the government and underutilise existing government programs so changes in federal health care policies would be of little interest. So I'm with you on this one. The "lefties" were less than careful with the truth.
vincent - 11/25/09 20:32
The sad part is you may be one of the few people who remember.

What is sad is that next year census workers will come across hostile people and most likely they will be people on the lower end of the socio-economic scale. Unfortunately they will be short changing themselves as not being accurately counted will hurt them more in the long run than anyone else. For example Niagara Falls NY could be downgraded to a town from a city that will have funding consequences for many social programs. I guess they figure it is better to be safe in thinking that some temp with a clipboard is an under cover benefits investigator than someone trying to make the case for representation in congress and program funding.

11/17/2009 13:10 #50331

The Journalist Has No Clothes
Multiple angle entendre there but really the journal"ist" I'm speaking of is me. I've been ignoring my journal for the past say, oh, month or so. It might be longer if I actually thought about it. I just haven't had a lot to say to anybody and have been bored with the idea of putting my thoughts down for posterity. However, (e:heidi) has snapped me out of it -

(e:heidi) recently said "My favorite birth control method remains lesbianism, which also makes subconscious slip ups less dangerous."

But does that really stop some lesbians on occasion? You know I'd never ask if it wasn't an honest question... this statement made me begin to analyze the psyche of lesbians and how it relates to the thought of intercourse with men.

Sexuality is a natural thing - urges are natural. I think humans, particularly females, are genetically disposed to crave intercourse, since it is what we rely on for the continuance of our species. I wonder how it works when you are a lesbian - is it really possible that lesbians don't get a primal urge to have sex with a man, regardless of how much they may not want to, when they are between the ages of say, 25 - 40? With guys I believe this is different since we have no biological clock to occasionally remind us that it is now or never.

Now is time for a very salacious detail that the likes of the Ho sisters would love to hear, which may shed some additional light on my question. Last year we visited a friend in Albany for a weekend and had a fabulous time, going out to the local bars and yukking it up with old college friends. Of course we were drinking our fair share and at our last stop we ran into some friendly people, one of which was a lesbian that I was chatting up. I caught her at a bad time - she broke up with her girlfriend earlier that day. It didn't stop her from grabbing me and making out with me in the middle of the bar!

So if the question is "have you ever kissed a lesbian," the answer is not only a yes but a fairly emphatic yes. I didn't want to hit on her too much, since I was very aware of the possibility of crazy emotions running through her head. Maybe she just wanted to feel better after a breakup; maybe she was feeling that primal urge I was speculating about. Maybe she hadn't kissed a guy in a while and wanted to feel the supple, passionate and strong masculine kisses of one Joshua Larson for a few minutes!

Maybe I thought about it too much. Later on in the evening, after I had gone back to yukking it with my friends, she left with another lesbian friend and some guy, looking about as lusty as I've ever seen two lesbians with a straight guy. O RLY? Yes rly. I wonder if they were lesbians, or really bisexuals with a heavy, heavy bias for the ladies. Depending on our outlook anyway, I clearly missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity.
heidi - 11/18/09 11:46
I'm glad I spurred your journalism... but I'm just going to ditto (e:james). *kisses*
vincent - 11/17/09 20:38
This post makes me think of a drunken conversation I had with a bunch of Women Rugby players this summer. It's funny as the one I was talking to was just venting to me on how her Ex broke up with her, went to some guy who was abusive to her and ended up getting pregnant within a month. The odd thing in my head was we were talking about sex & our sign "Libra" while there seem to be some weird chemistry building the entire time.

Who knows if these women are just trying to be something they are not and are in the end just confused.
metalpeter - 11/17/09 18:53
First of all good post and great question.

I agree with what people have said about labeles not fitting and the sexuality is fluid. There are all kids of things that I could never understand. I won't mention one of the things I don't get. The reason is, it is very often used as a way to bash lesbains, I wouldn't use it that way but I'm still not going to ask it anyways.

I'm guessing the women you met was really bi-sexaul. Or maybe she is one of those varations like she likes couples. Yes there are some men and somewomen who want to be with a man and women at the same time. Then there are women who would call them selves stright but go do bars and make out with girls, for fun, or to see what it is like, but who like guys and want to date only guys. So there as others have said lots of varations that don't fit into those little boxes.
theecarey - 11/17/09 15:47
(e:james) really summed it up, sexuality is fluid.

I'm a "straight" women who is only interested in men, have no working biological clock that I am aware of (haven't had any desire, real or abstract at any point thus far, and I would be shocked if the feeling ever emerged) and have made out with enough "gay" men to write a book. (quotes are to indicate the loose interpretation of the use of lables)

and I've met men through the years that had babies on the brain, but that is another story for another day.

So that is my long way of saying,the clock ticks in some and not in others, regardless of gender and sexual orientation.
joshua - 11/17/09 14:38
I have been wicked horny lately so it's not helping :( Haha!
jenks - 11/17/09 14:30
ha! yeah! haven't had any good ol' sex talk on this site in a while! go joshy! ;)
james - 11/17/09 14:15
Our model of sexuality is fucked. It really is a lot more fluid than we think it is.

For one, we think of sexuality on a continuum between gay and straight. Really, there are hundreds of other axises to consider.

We think of sexuality as being independent. Really, it is connected to everything in our lives. The relationships we seek, the way we spend our time, our sex, our history.

We live in a sexual universe but we think of it as geocentric. We need the Galileo of sex to fuck this shit up.
matthew - 11/17/09 13:51
IMO, I think it all comes down to the individual. I know for a fact there are some lesbians who have absolutley no desire to sleep with man. I know there are some gay men who never have the urge to sleep with women (I'd go more into this but I know my mom reads this site lol) just as there are surley straight men who never get the urge to sleep with another man, and vice versa. And then there's everybody else in between.

11/16/2009 16:39 #50324

Tidbit
So when do internationally recognized labor standards get superseded? When union agreements are involved! Next time you find a place where employees work in excess of 60 hours per week, or even 72, or even 80... take a careful look at the collective bargaining agreement. Often times the collective bargaining agreements will even supersede written law, depending on the topic.
joshua - 11/17/09 10:23
As much as I rail against unions I'm not closed minded about their existence, or whether or not they still have a relevant role to play. Raise your hand if you grew up in a multigenerational blue collar union family like me - anyone? The fact is that unions have made a lot of mistakes and I'm glad to talk to people honestly about the pros and cons.

For me overall the golden days for unions are long gone... unions did their most important and vital work decades ago, getting labor standards codified. OSHA wouldn't exist without labor union influence over the years. Since these laws protecting workers have been written, unions have become more of a special interest or advocacy group, no different or any less sinister than any other lobbying group on Capitol Hill.

Actually, these days the SEIU is directly involved at the highest level with the formulation of healthcare policy in this country. I'm not seeing anyone complaining like they did when oil executives were meeting with the Bush administration about energy policy. If anyone would like to explain that I'm all ears!
joshua - 11/17/09 09:50
Depends on the day - I'm off the entire last week of the year! :D

PS - Jay told me you cut your hair and I was truly shocked!
janelle - 11/16/09 19:12
I should get you together with my brother sometime. He is a former union organizer and he is more than happy to have an honest discussion on the serious mistakes unions have made. I think he has a pretty interesting union perspective as an organizer. Maybe you can meet him when he is here for Christmas...but you'll probably be in Jamestown, I suppose.

11/09/2009 23:41 #50261

Jason the Chef
He's like a leopard, prowling up the side of a mountain. That mountain is called French cuisine and Jason the leopard is conquering this mountain a recipe at a time. Not to brag, but my brother is getting his shit together in the kitchen and it's about time someone gave him some damn recognition for it.

I feel so bad about that journal entry where I compared his picture to a picture of Shaggy!

(If you missed it - - really only I can get away with this)
metalpeter - 11/10/09 13:46
I forgot about that post it was funny
joshua - 11/10/09 11:16
There's nothing malicious in this and never has been - if anybody called you Shaggy I'd headbutt their fucking nose off, don't worry. =p
jason - 11/10/09 11:14
God dammit Josh!~~ Now I'm getting all kinds of peanut gallery comments!!
james - 11/10/09 06:20
Leopards are known for their knife skillz