So I had a great time in Orlando with my friends, my best friend was very surprised with his party and my presence.
I was on Tupper where it becomes the 33 tonight and the cops had a sobriety checkpoint setup. First time I've actually seen one! I was kind of hoping for a breathalyzer (sp) test for some weird reason but he didn't do it, just asked where I was coming from, if I'd had anything to drink, and shot a flashlight into my eyes while his darted around the car. Traffic was waaaay backed up. Kinda sucks....wasted 20 minutes of my time. They were arresting a kid next to me as I was being questioned.
Picked up Metal Gear Solid 4 for the PS3. Been looking forward to it for a long time. Played like 3 hours worth or so...my initial reaction? Greatest game ever!! Of course I finally quit after being spotted for the 50th time in this one area. REALLY pissing me off. I might restart the game in the easiest mode instead of Normal mode because if it's this hard already I'm gonna be in trouble, and I want to finish the storyline/game.
You may have heard in the news that Cuomo is suing CVS and Rite-Aid for having outdated products in their stores. Some of you know I work for the former. My store was one on the list. My unofficial, off the record, I never said that comment is....basically, the state needs more money and is looking wherever it can. I truly hate the way this state, county, city etc operates. So the decree came down to have every one of us check every single product in our stores for outdates no matter how long it took, not to mention we all had a truck today. Products are good several months after their expirations (well except milk..) and they'll find plenty of expired products in pretty much every store in existence if they look hard enough. We'll see how big this gets blown up; people really are ridiculous alarmists. Reason #656,096 why I'm dreading work tomorrow.
Tiburon1724's Journal
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06/12/2008 23:49 #44632
Update06/01/2008 23:30 #44514
Weekend in HellSo even though the weather forecast in Buffalo seems to change by the hour, we're supposedly finally getting back to the warm weather that teased me so back in April only to go into hiding for all of May. 89 on Friday!! That's more like it!!
Oh yeah, Friday I leave for a weekend trip back down to hell, aka Orlando. Well either way I'll get my warmth, just with a heat index of about 105 and massive thunderstorms every 4 hours while sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic fighting drivers who can't read English and therefore can't read street signs, and praying I won't be shot (Orlando is basically Buffalo East side crime-wise, they just tax tourists and keep the parts visitors see looking purty) and being forced to eat and shop at nothing but pretentious chains. At least I have direct flights both ways. For the first time I'm not checking luggage, that's the biggest pain.
So why go if I hate it so much? I promised a friend I would because she is throwing a surprise party for my best friend's 30th birthday. Of course when I talked to him 2 days ago he told me how she told him about it!! Then he asked if I was coming down but I was able to change the subject. That really pisses me off since the main point of my coming is the surprise, but I won't bring it up with her until I get there. I figure the quieter I keep this week, the less likely it will be that his suspicion of my involvement will be affirmed!
Oh yeah, Friday I leave for a weekend trip back down to hell, aka Orlando. Well either way I'll get my warmth, just with a heat index of about 105 and massive thunderstorms every 4 hours while sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic fighting drivers who can't read English and therefore can't read street signs, and praying I won't be shot (Orlando is basically Buffalo East side crime-wise, they just tax tourists and keep the parts visitors see looking purty) and being forced to eat and shop at nothing but pretentious chains. At least I have direct flights both ways. For the first time I'm not checking luggage, that's the biggest pain.
So why go if I hate it so much? I promised a friend I would because she is throwing a surprise party for my best friend's 30th birthday. Of course when I talked to him 2 days ago he told me how she told him about it!! Then he asked if I was coming down but I was able to change the subject. That really pisses me off since the main point of my coming is the surprise, but I won't bring it up with her until I get there. I figure the quieter I keep this week, the less likely it will be that his suspicion of my involvement will be affirmed!
tiburon1724 - 06/02/08 22:45
Definitely looking forward to the party and seeing people don't get me wrong.
Definitely looking forward to the party and seeing people don't get me wrong.
metalpeter - 06/02/08 18:45
Well hopefully the party is at least fun and who knows maybe even wild and crazy in the good way.
Well hopefully the party is at least fun and who knows maybe even wild and crazy in the good way.
06/01/2008 23:17 #44513
Cameras, prove your worthCategory: city
So those controversial cameras we all know about are being put to the test in the media thanks to the hit & run on Chippewa & Delaware courtesy of Marshawn Lynch's Porsche, and the mugging of an elderly woman at Hertel & Colvin, both intersections with the cameras installed.
It took 5 minutes for an ambulance to respond at Chippewa and BPD won't comment on anything....and no real police response at Hertel...no comment again from BPD there, and no apprehension of said mugger. So if we installed these cameras and they're being monitored 24/7, wouldn't police immediately be able to be dispatched/respond with detailed information and solve these cases very quickly? Wouldn't the city also be all too eager to tout the justice dished out by these cameras for good press on a controversial project? It would be one thing if the cameras were being used to their fullest but if it's another joke, shame on you Byron Brown.
On a sidenote, if Lynch is guilty and I'm sure he is (I don't often loan out my Porsche at 4am), it could result in up to a year in prison, not to mention any potential team/league sanctions. And it will also result in further proof that there is a curse against the Bills as we watch our best chance at making the playoffs in 10 years disapear in smoke.
It took 5 minutes for an ambulance to respond at Chippewa and BPD won't comment on anything....and no real police response at Hertel...no comment again from BPD there, and no apprehension of said mugger. So if we installed these cameras and they're being monitored 24/7, wouldn't police immediately be able to be dispatched/respond with detailed information and solve these cases very quickly? Wouldn't the city also be all too eager to tout the justice dished out by these cameras for good press on a controversial project? It would be one thing if the cameras were being used to their fullest but if it's another joke, shame on you Byron Brown.
On a sidenote, if Lynch is guilty and I'm sure he is (I don't often loan out my Porsche at 4am), it could result in up to a year in prison, not to mention any potential team/league sanctions. And it will also result in further proof that there is a curse against the Bills as we watch our best chance at making the playoffs in 10 years disapear in smoke.
metalpeter - 06/02/08 18:16
Don't worry about lynch I'm sure it will get swept under the rug and he and the insurance company will make a deal with the women and she will be set for life, well maybe not life but for a good amount of years. If the windows where tinted you wouldn't be able to tell who was driving. I'm guessing the story and it could be true is that they where out and about on the chip strip drinking and one of his buddies who had less in him then lynch was told to Drive. It does bring up a good question about the cameras. I'm guessing that they all are monitored but that there are not enough people to really watch all the screens like there should be. If you cough you could miss a hit N Run with out a problem. I would also think that who ever is hired to watch the screens should be a natural Voyur that way the person doesn't get board and pick up a paper or magazine.
Don't worry about lynch I'm sure it will get swept under the rug and he and the insurance company will make a deal with the women and she will be set for life, well maybe not life but for a good amount of years. If the windows where tinted you wouldn't be able to tell who was driving. I'm guessing the story and it could be true is that they where out and about on the chip strip drinking and one of his buddies who had less in him then lynch was told to Drive. It does bring up a good question about the cameras. I'm guessing that they all are monitored but that there are not enough people to really watch all the screens like there should be. If you cough you could miss a hit N Run with out a problem. I would also think that who ever is hired to watch the screens should be a natural Voyur that way the person doesn't get board and pick up a paper or magazine.
05/11/2008 23:50 #44313
Aliensdo you believe in aliens? I definitely do, but I heard something on a talk radio show on Sirius a while back that made sense to me.
They said there's an argument that intelligent life may exist, but we'll never encounter it because any form of life that's progressed enough to find us will have already destroyed itself just as we will destroy ourselves before we ever get to the point we can go that far into space. In other words, by the time we get smart enough to save ourselves, it'll be too late as our own creations will destroy us, whether you believe in something like Skynet from Terminator (Google is the real-life Skynet, I still say so!) or the damage we do to our planet, or the weapons we create to kill ourselves.
It is mankind's destiny to destroy itself, it's inevitable. But is this a factor of MANkind or all intelligent lifeforms? If our cats and dogs were as intelligent as us, would they demonstrate the same behaviors on planet Pet?
They said there's an argument that intelligent life may exist, but we'll never encounter it because any form of life that's progressed enough to find us will have already destroyed itself just as we will destroy ourselves before we ever get to the point we can go that far into space. In other words, by the time we get smart enough to save ourselves, it'll be too late as our own creations will destroy us, whether you believe in something like Skynet from Terminator (Google is the real-life Skynet, I still say so!) or the damage we do to our planet, or the weapons we create to kill ourselves.
It is mankind's destiny to destroy itself, it's inevitable. But is this a factor of MANkind or all intelligent lifeforms? If our cats and dogs were as intelligent as us, would they demonstrate the same behaviors on planet Pet?
metalpeter - 05/12/08 19:48
There could be. But unless someone has made some thing that can go past light speed we will never meet. Well unless someone figured out cryospacious that works and you could sleep for a hundred year trip and then be brought back to life by the computer.
There could be. But unless someone has made some thing that can go past light speed we will never meet. Well unless someone figured out cryospacious that works and you could sleep for a hundred year trip and then be brought back to life by the computer.
james - 05/12/08 15:10
That seems like silly logic. Obviously, all civilizations follow the same trajectory. We know next to nothing about the life that would emerge elsewhere or the planet that it would emerge on. The planet, by crazy coincidence, could have come standard with nuclear fusion reactors and hybrid cars.
All I know is, a nuclear fusion powered anal probe hurts like a bitch.
That seems like silly logic. Obviously, all civilizations follow the same trajectory. We know next to nothing about the life that would emerge elsewhere or the planet that it would emerge on. The planet, by crazy coincidence, could have come standard with nuclear fusion reactors and hybrid cars.
All I know is, a nuclear fusion powered anal probe hurts like a bitch.
fellyconnelly - 05/12/08 08:49
hmmm interesting theory! I always have been a firm beleiver in the idea that aliens are humans from the future, come back in time in saucer shaped time capsules.
except einsteins theory of time travel i beleive would argue..
hmmm interesting theory! I always have been a firm beleiver in the idea that aliens are humans from the future, come back in time in saucer shaped time capsules.
except einsteins theory of time travel i beleive would argue..
jason - 05/12/08 08:20
Yeah, I do, and Carl Sagan always said that the numbers favor the theory that we aren't alone, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Yeah, I do, and Carl Sagan always said that the numbers favor the theory that we aren't alone, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
imk2 - 05/12/08 02:18
that's why i'm joining scientology; you get the science and the religion all wrapped up in a nice pretty bow, and when i do, i'll let you know the answer to your question. (but then i'll have to kill you)
(but not before i take all your money!)
that's why i'm joining scientology; you get the science and the religion all wrapped up in a nice pretty bow, and when i do, i'll let you know the answer to your question. (but then i'll have to kill you)
(but not before i take all your money!)
tiburon1724 - 05/12/08 00:04
Maybe we'll find out when the next X-Files movie comes out this summer!! Can't wait!!
Maybe we'll find out when the next X-Files movie comes out this summer!! Can't wait!!
tinypliny - 05/11/08 23:56
The truth, as they say, IS OUT THERE. :)
The truth, as they say, IS OUT THERE. :)
05/11/2008 15:27 #44308
Unions hah!American Axle seeks to close all 3 of its Buffalo-area plants
Proposed deal to end strike would add Cheektowaga plant to the shutdown list
Great job those unions do, huh? I absolutely despise any sort of union. They continue to bring down WNY and most of the Northeastern US. It interrupts the natural order of the economy. If you're not making enough, ask for a raise, if you don't get it, LOOK FOR WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you don't like the working conditions, LOOK FOR WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE. "oh there is no work" YEAH BECAUSE THE UNIONS HAVE DRIVEN ALL BUSINESS AWAY. Get educated and find a new line of work.
Then the story about union people saying volunteers couldn't build a Cheektowaga playground for free, give me a freaking break. One thing I do miss about Florida is there's hardly any union talk or unions to speak of at all. If it were me I'd tell the union to fuck off. Are there laws requiring companies to deal with them because I just don't understand why they do.
Okay sorry for the rant have a nice day :)
Proposed deal to end strike would add Cheektowaga plant to the shutdown list
Great job those unions do, huh? I absolutely despise any sort of union. They continue to bring down WNY and most of the Northeastern US. It interrupts the natural order of the economy. If you're not making enough, ask for a raise, if you don't get it, LOOK FOR WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you don't like the working conditions, LOOK FOR WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE. "oh there is no work" YEAH BECAUSE THE UNIONS HAVE DRIVEN ALL BUSINESS AWAY. Get educated and find a new line of work.
Then the story about union people saying volunteers couldn't build a Cheektowaga playground for free, give me a freaking break. One thing I do miss about Florida is there's hardly any union talk or unions to speak of at all. If it were me I'd tell the union to fuck off. Are there laws requiring companies to deal with them because I just don't understand why they do.
Okay sorry for the rant have a nice day :)
metalpeter - 05/12/08 19:44
I have to add a couple things First (e:imk2) you make a lot of great points and think I agreed with everything or mostly everything you said.
I think one of the problems with both unions and the places the people work for is that they use contracts. My understanding is that the contracts determine everything. So then what happens is instead of a company having certain policies and procedures that the union overseas and makes sure aren't violated then every time a contract ends both sides have to agree on terms and they both really just want more. That works a lot less efficently then just having a system of raises and benifits at a place. What gets really weird in some places like if you work for the city and you are grandfathered in. So that what ever contract you where hired under if it changes then the rules on yours still apply and the new contract is just for new hires or wait maybe that is the county.
I think that US companies can make cars and make a profit. Maybe they are not as good as Japanese cars but they are trying and I think they will get better.
Out sourcing is great for other countries but not to good for us. What it does is lay off workers make the rich/middle class poor and make the higher ups richer and richer and richer, since it knocks down costs. If people where resposible they then wouldn't buy a cars anymore since they don't have a job. Eventully outsourcing will turn the USA into a 3rd world country and we will go to mexico to get jobs. If you don't have money to buy a car or or other products then that company may go out of Business if they only sell stuff here. It seems like Coropate responsiblity is a thing of the past. That being said people in unions can't be greedy either. Right now it has become cheeper for American Axle to close and move their plants someplace else. But see if they don't learn the next time there is a strike then it will become cheeper to move those plants some place else and it will never stop.
I have to add a couple things First (e:imk2) you make a lot of great points and think I agreed with everything or mostly everything you said.
I think one of the problems with both unions and the places the people work for is that they use contracts. My understanding is that the contracts determine everything. So then what happens is instead of a company having certain policies and procedures that the union overseas and makes sure aren't violated then every time a contract ends both sides have to agree on terms and they both really just want more. That works a lot less efficently then just having a system of raises and benifits at a place. What gets really weird in some places like if you work for the city and you are grandfathered in. So that what ever contract you where hired under if it changes then the rules on yours still apply and the new contract is just for new hires or wait maybe that is the county.
I think that US companies can make cars and make a profit. Maybe they are not as good as Japanese cars but they are trying and I think they will get better.
Out sourcing is great for other countries but not to good for us. What it does is lay off workers make the rich/middle class poor and make the higher ups richer and richer and richer, since it knocks down costs. If people where resposible they then wouldn't buy a cars anymore since they don't have a job. Eventully outsourcing will turn the USA into a 3rd world country and we will go to mexico to get jobs. If you don't have money to buy a car or or other products then that company may go out of Business if they only sell stuff here. It seems like Coropate responsiblity is a thing of the past. That being said people in unions can't be greedy either. Right now it has become cheeper for American Axle to close and move their plants someplace else. But see if they don't learn the next time there is a strike then it will become cheeper to move those plants some place else and it will never stop.
tiburon1724 - 05/12/08 00:03
There will always be new lower tier jobs for people, it's just that...say, in 2 generations they will be significantly more advanced as they are today, as everything is relative. However, this has not happened in a long time. I think we're all playing devil's advocate, something I love to do. I was taught hardcore economic principle is correct, don't worry about the people as they will eventually be taken care of (even if it's the next generation but a generation must suffer first)
Buffalo's big problem is when the economy started to change, nobody here did anything to adapt. Those $20/hr factory jobs started dissapearing and those people had no other skills, said "there are no jobs!" and moved. A huge part was more local government in not adapting and chasing after the next big thing too. I used to run a gaming website when I was in high school during the dot com boom...had an advertising contract and everything. I didn't continue to learn and adapt and therefore I can't do any of the fancy things websites do today. I only know basic html. So now I wouldn't be able to get a job in that area. Had I pursued and kept up with it I'dbe ok. Not saying it's the same situation but it touches upon the underlying principle.
There will always be new lower tier jobs for people, it's just that...say, in 2 generations they will be significantly more advanced as they are today, as everything is relative. However, this has not happened in a long time. I think we're all playing devil's advocate, something I love to do. I was taught hardcore economic principle is correct, don't worry about the people as they will eventually be taken care of (even if it's the next generation but a generation must suffer first)
Buffalo's big problem is when the economy started to change, nobody here did anything to adapt. Those $20/hr factory jobs started dissapearing and those people had no other skills, said "there are no jobs!" and moved. A huge part was more local government in not adapting and chasing after the next big thing too. I used to run a gaming website when I was in high school during the dot com boom...had an advertising contract and everything. I didn't continue to learn and adapt and therefore I can't do any of the fancy things websites do today. I only know basic html. So now I wouldn't be able to get a job in that area. Had I pursued and kept up with it I'dbe ok. Not saying it's the same situation but it touches upon the underlying principle.
tinypliny - 05/11/08 23:52
I was about to go off but I could not help coming back at this one: "So we give up 10 minimum wage jobs for 3 jobs that pay 10x more - net gain for the economy. Over time, this forces the nation's population to grow more intelligent."
In an ideal world, Tib!!!
But, we as flawed humans, will continue to reproduce like crazy without thinking about consequences.
We will reject every family planning/control measure there is because we are too ignorant to care!
That is the real world.
In the real world those three high paying jobs will take us back to the feudal land-owning ages with the wealth concentrated among a few. Because let's not forget that money beget power and power begets corruption!
I was about to go off but I could not help coming back at this one: "So we give up 10 minimum wage jobs for 3 jobs that pay 10x more - net gain for the economy. Over time, this forces the nation's population to grow more intelligent."
In an ideal world, Tib!!!
But, we as flawed humans, will continue to reproduce like crazy without thinking about consequences.
We will reject every family planning/control measure there is because we are too ignorant to care!
That is the real world.
In the real world those three high paying jobs will take us back to the feudal land-owning ages with the wealth concentrated among a few. Because let's not forget that money beget power and power begets corruption!
tiburon1724 - 05/11/08 23:43
You're looking at it on a personal, individual level, which can't be done.
If an industry cannot support itself in this country, it should not exist in this country - Comparative Advantage. There are a limited number of resources available in the world be it land, labor, or capital. The entire world would be better off if everyone made what they held a comparative advantage in. For example, all American automobile manufacturing should be shutdown (that is, no longer proped up by the government which will result in them all failing). We cannot make them as efficiently as the Asians, union or no. The Middle East is ripe with oil, we are ripe with wheat, etc. The whole argument against free trade is silly from an economic standpoint.
Of course if all the countries could get along (ie The US minds it's own business and stays out of the rest of the world) it would help open this up completely as it should be, and if governments would stop interfering, like by bailing out industries (again, auto industry comes to mind) and just leave the economy alone, everyone would be better off for it in the long run. Certainly not short term as the economy would have to adjust...those people jobless because auto manufacturing is shutdown must adapt...or we wait for them to die off, before the benefits are realized. Another example is when people say they hate self-checkout lanes because it costs someone a job. No, it may cost people jobs that require no education, but it creates jobs in more advanced areas - people design the software and maintain them. These are higher paying jobs which require education/specialized training. So we give up 10 minimum wage jobs for 3 jobs that pay 10x more - net gain for the economy. Over time, this forces the nation's population to grow more intelligent. Otherwise, we continue to fall behind the rest of the world, which is what has been happening, because everyone's afraid to do what's right for the many instead of the few. You can't look at individual cases if you're running things, just the big picture. But our uneducated population doesn't understand this and therefore won't vote for it, so it doesn't get done...it'll take someone strong in office to get a turnaround rolling.
You're looking at it on a personal, individual level, which can't be done.
If an industry cannot support itself in this country, it should not exist in this country - Comparative Advantage. There are a limited number of resources available in the world be it land, labor, or capital. The entire world would be better off if everyone made what they held a comparative advantage in. For example, all American automobile manufacturing should be shutdown (that is, no longer proped up by the government which will result in them all failing). We cannot make them as efficiently as the Asians, union or no. The Middle East is ripe with oil, we are ripe with wheat, etc. The whole argument against free trade is silly from an economic standpoint.
Of course if all the countries could get along (ie The US minds it's own business and stays out of the rest of the world) it would help open this up completely as it should be, and if governments would stop interfering, like by bailing out industries (again, auto industry comes to mind) and just leave the economy alone, everyone would be better off for it in the long run. Certainly not short term as the economy would have to adjust...those people jobless because auto manufacturing is shutdown must adapt...or we wait for them to die off, before the benefits are realized. Another example is when people say they hate self-checkout lanes because it costs someone a job. No, it may cost people jobs that require no education, but it creates jobs in more advanced areas - people design the software and maintain them. These are higher paying jobs which require education/specialized training. So we give up 10 minimum wage jobs for 3 jobs that pay 10x more - net gain for the economy. Over time, this forces the nation's population to grow more intelligent. Otherwise, we continue to fall behind the rest of the world, which is what has been happening, because everyone's afraid to do what's right for the many instead of the few. You can't look at individual cases if you're running things, just the big picture. But our uneducated population doesn't understand this and therefore won't vote for it, so it doesn't get done...it'll take someone strong in office to get a turnaround rolling.
tinypliny - 05/11/08 23:16
Nice comment, imk2. I agree, wholeheartedly. I read all of your comments and I have a couple of my own to add to the mileau.
Unions back home are a pain. Their ends (helping the worker) don't justify their means. Instead of reasonable table-discussions with the industry leaders, they resort to strikes. These affect economic growth, more workers are laid off and wages are lowered. So in the end, ill-advised and rather reactionary methods employed by the union come back and damage the worker's chances of getting proper work-related justice.
From all your arguments, it would seem that inappropriate use of union influence and power is what is tipping the balance here, as well. If so, writing off unions completely or giving them unlimited power is not the solution. Perhaps, unions should have a code of conduct as well. They are no doubt a necessity as is amply pointed out by (e:imk2), but they cannot run unregulated. I would favour a moderate middle path toward union practices. Keep 'em, empower 'em but don't let 'em run wild.
Nice comment, imk2. I agree, wholeheartedly. I read all of your comments and I have a couple of my own to add to the mileau.
Unions back home are a pain. Their ends (helping the worker) don't justify their means. Instead of reasonable table-discussions with the industry leaders, they resort to strikes. These affect economic growth, more workers are laid off and wages are lowered. So in the end, ill-advised and rather reactionary methods employed by the union come back and damage the worker's chances of getting proper work-related justice.
From all your arguments, it would seem that inappropriate use of union influence and power is what is tipping the balance here, as well. If so, writing off unions completely or giving them unlimited power is not the solution. Perhaps, unions should have a code of conduct as well. They are no doubt a necessity as is amply pointed out by (e:imk2), but they cannot run unregulated. I would favour a moderate middle path toward union practices. Keep 'em, empower 'em but don't let 'em run wild.
imk2 - 05/11/08 22:38
yeah, i think i have to agree with (e:paul) and (e:metalpeter) here. although, unions can often times be difficult and even sometimes obstructive, they do offer protections that you wouldn't have otherwise. as i'm sure you know, if you work for an employer without union representation, the employer can fire you for whatever reason he/she wants. if your boss doesn't like you, if they're not making as big of a profit as they like, if you're getting old or if you stir up trouble, etc....if you don't have union protection, you can get fired.
initially, unions were formed to protect workers from the horrible working conditions that arose during the industrial revolution. big corporations, at the turn of the century, had deplorable working conditions, that forced people to work ungodly amounts of hours in conditions that were inhumane. people were used and discarded like cattle while big business made enormous profits. they pocketed all of the money without regard as to how they treated their workers. an excellent book that depicts what was going on during that time is "the jungle" by upton sinclair. that book followed an immigrant family living in chicago at the beginning of the 20th century while working for the meatpacking industry. it showed the incredible corruption of the corporations and the mistreatment of its workers as "wage slavery". the book is credited as the catalyst for labor and food safety reform in america.
it's easy to say that unions drive business away, but imagine being an employee who has given 10, 20 or 30 years of their life to a company only to get fired over some frivolous or stupid disagreement or because you became injured and had to be out on sick leave for a month or two.
unions protect a worker from being fired from injury, old age, disagreements, personal issues, etc. in many counties, those portections are offered by the government, but since we pride ourselves on our capitalistic idealism, our government was not willing to interfere by means of regulations with big business since that would seem to go against what capitlism is all about. although times have changed a bit, and there are some federal regulations in place now to protect workers (such as having to inform you if you are working with hazardous materials or sexual harassment laws) from unfair treatment, unions often still remain the only form of protection a worker has against "THE MAN".
i'm not sure how you can say "if you don't like your job look for work somewhere else"? it's not as if manual jobs can be found on every street corner. you also say "get educated and find a new line of work". you do realize that not everyone is cut out for a university education, right? not everyone is the cerebral, intellectual type that can work in a office. the few manual jobs that we have left here (which are most often associated with union jobs) provide one of the last kinds of employment opportunities for people who, although diligent and hard working, could not manage to obtain a job that requires a college degree.
what about the guy (or girl) who comes from the wrong side of the tracks that would never get passed the first interview because of the way they speak or look? i mean seriously, think about the chances of country bumpkin or inner city kid who has been educated in substandard schools their entire lives trying to get an office job that requires them to speak and act in a way that is completely foreign to them. believe me, those subtle nuances that you and i take to be the norm, can seem completely foreign to someone who has never been exposed to them. the stupid bullshitting and ass kissing we all do on an everyday basis is not an ingrained behavior. we have to learn it from somewhere. many people will say that it is not our problem if there are people out there that don't want to conform to the expectations and standards that are required of people who want to work in main-stream, corporate america. but honestly, it is not a matter of not WANTING to conform, but the lack of know-how of how to do so.
there exists a whole other world of a subculture of american people who do not live in main stream, middle class, america. they come from communities that have different customs, different language and ways of speaking, different values and different beliefs that often often get labeled as ghetto or country or backward or ignorant. to believe that that life style and upbringing is completely by choice is ignorant in and of itself. and to try to kid ourselves into thinking that they should just clean up their act or get lost is over-simplistic and naive.
i honestly don't know how one might expect someone who has been raised in a low income home, attended crappy schools and surrounded by crappy parents, to act and behave in the same manner as a williamsville, tonawanda or kenmore resident who attended private schools and had a stay at home mom. i know that this is a grand generalization, but there is truth that lies in generalizations. and you can't deny that the kid that grows up in amherst has social advantages that the kid from the east side doesn't. (and i'm not talking about money)
and before people start chewing my head off, i am not saying that all manual job employees are country bumpkins or all come form the lower socio-economic spectrum of society. but i am saying, that often times, those are the only kinds of jobs that people, who come form those facets of life, can hope to get in order to have a chance at living a life that isn't spent on welfare or living from paycheck to paycheck. because there are people out there that didn't have the opportunity to develop themselves academically and there are people out there who were not motivated to become "professionals"
BELIEVE ME...wanting to be SOMEBODY does not necessarily come to people naturally. it is taught to you by the people around you. by your parents, mentors, siblings, teachers, community members and peers, and if you are surrounded by downtrodden, unmotivated and uneducated people all of your life, chances are your expectations in life will vary greatly from that of you or i and getting the american axle job is the the best you can expect professionally. and is it necessarily so bad to want to work a manual job? aren't there some people who get a whole lot more satisfaction from working a job that is physically challenging, that requires you to sweat, to use your hands and muscle? don't these people deserve to be able to have a job that will allow them to support themselves? don't people deserve the chance to earn a decent wage even if they are not academically inclined? does every decent paying job have to be behind a desk and computer?
we have to have jobs in this country that allow people to live above the poverty line that do not necessarily require a college degree. higher education is not for everyone, and for those people for whom it's not, there should be opportunities to support themselves and their families without living in poverty.
i think the real issue here would be to address NAFTA and globalization and the reasons WHY these jobs are permitted to go abroad. because as long as people in other countries are willing to cope with lower standards of living (which is not necessarily a bad thing, i mean, do we all have to have 5 TV's and a car for each member of the family?) then at some point our standard of living will have to decline as well to even out the playing field.
and by the way, this is not a personal attack on you, tiburon, or your beliefs; it's just an argument i thought i'd throw out there. i'm sure many people here will disagree with me.
yeah, i think i have to agree with (e:paul) and (e:metalpeter) here. although, unions can often times be difficult and even sometimes obstructive, they do offer protections that you wouldn't have otherwise. as i'm sure you know, if you work for an employer without union representation, the employer can fire you for whatever reason he/she wants. if your boss doesn't like you, if they're not making as big of a profit as they like, if you're getting old or if you stir up trouble, etc....if you don't have union protection, you can get fired.
initially, unions were formed to protect workers from the horrible working conditions that arose during the industrial revolution. big corporations, at the turn of the century, had deplorable working conditions, that forced people to work ungodly amounts of hours in conditions that were inhumane. people were used and discarded like cattle while big business made enormous profits. they pocketed all of the money without regard as to how they treated their workers. an excellent book that depicts what was going on during that time is "the jungle" by upton sinclair. that book followed an immigrant family living in chicago at the beginning of the 20th century while working for the meatpacking industry. it showed the incredible corruption of the corporations and the mistreatment of its workers as "wage slavery". the book is credited as the catalyst for labor and food safety reform in america.
it's easy to say that unions drive business away, but imagine being an employee who has given 10, 20 or 30 years of their life to a company only to get fired over some frivolous or stupid disagreement or because you became injured and had to be out on sick leave for a month or two.
unions protect a worker from being fired from injury, old age, disagreements, personal issues, etc. in many counties, those portections are offered by the government, but since we pride ourselves on our capitalistic idealism, our government was not willing to interfere by means of regulations with big business since that would seem to go against what capitlism is all about. although times have changed a bit, and there are some federal regulations in place now to protect workers (such as having to inform you if you are working with hazardous materials or sexual harassment laws) from unfair treatment, unions often still remain the only form of protection a worker has against "THE MAN".
i'm not sure how you can say "if you don't like your job look for work somewhere else"? it's not as if manual jobs can be found on every street corner. you also say "get educated and find a new line of work". you do realize that not everyone is cut out for a university education, right? not everyone is the cerebral, intellectual type that can work in a office. the few manual jobs that we have left here (which are most often associated with union jobs) provide one of the last kinds of employment opportunities for people who, although diligent and hard working, could not manage to obtain a job that requires a college degree.
what about the guy (or girl) who comes from the wrong side of the tracks that would never get passed the first interview because of the way they speak or look? i mean seriously, think about the chances of country bumpkin or inner city kid who has been educated in substandard schools their entire lives trying to get an office job that requires them to speak and act in a way that is completely foreign to them. believe me, those subtle nuances that you and i take to be the norm, can seem completely foreign to someone who has never been exposed to them. the stupid bullshitting and ass kissing we all do on an everyday basis is not an ingrained behavior. we have to learn it from somewhere. many people will say that it is not our problem if there are people out there that don't want to conform to the expectations and standards that are required of people who want to work in main-stream, corporate america. but honestly, it is not a matter of not WANTING to conform, but the lack of know-how of how to do so.
there exists a whole other world of a subculture of american people who do not live in main stream, middle class, america. they come from communities that have different customs, different language and ways of speaking, different values and different beliefs that often often get labeled as ghetto or country or backward or ignorant. to believe that that life style and upbringing is completely by choice is ignorant in and of itself. and to try to kid ourselves into thinking that they should just clean up their act or get lost is over-simplistic and naive.
i honestly don't know how one might expect someone who has been raised in a low income home, attended crappy schools and surrounded by crappy parents, to act and behave in the same manner as a williamsville, tonawanda or kenmore resident who attended private schools and had a stay at home mom. i know that this is a grand generalization, but there is truth that lies in generalizations. and you can't deny that the kid that grows up in amherst has social advantages that the kid from the east side doesn't. (and i'm not talking about money)
and before people start chewing my head off, i am not saying that all manual job employees are country bumpkins or all come form the lower socio-economic spectrum of society. but i am saying, that often times, those are the only kinds of jobs that people, who come form those facets of life, can hope to get in order to have a chance at living a life that isn't spent on welfare or living from paycheck to paycheck. because there are people out there that didn't have the opportunity to develop themselves academically and there are people out there who were not motivated to become "professionals"
BELIEVE ME...wanting to be SOMEBODY does not necessarily come to people naturally. it is taught to you by the people around you. by your parents, mentors, siblings, teachers, community members and peers, and if you are surrounded by downtrodden, unmotivated and uneducated people all of your life, chances are your expectations in life will vary greatly from that of you or i and getting the american axle job is the the best you can expect professionally. and is it necessarily so bad to want to work a manual job? aren't there some people who get a whole lot more satisfaction from working a job that is physically challenging, that requires you to sweat, to use your hands and muscle? don't these people deserve to be able to have a job that will allow them to support themselves? don't people deserve the chance to earn a decent wage even if they are not academically inclined? does every decent paying job have to be behind a desk and computer?
we have to have jobs in this country that allow people to live above the poverty line that do not necessarily require a college degree. higher education is not for everyone, and for those people for whom it's not, there should be opportunities to support themselves and their families without living in poverty.
i think the real issue here would be to address NAFTA and globalization and the reasons WHY these jobs are permitted to go abroad. because as long as people in other countries are willing to cope with lower standards of living (which is not necessarily a bad thing, i mean, do we all have to have 5 TV's and a car for each member of the family?) then at some point our standard of living will have to decline as well to even out the playing field.
and by the way, this is not a personal attack on you, tiburon, or your beliefs; it's just an argument i thought i'd throw out there. i'm sure many people here will disagree with me.
tiburon1724 - 05/11/08 21:29
they go to mexico and the sunbelt because there are no unions there to make their business less profitable and less able to compete with foreign manufacturers! In that way it's directly the fault of the unions.
The American automakers can't make a car with nearly as many features for anywhere near the price of a good import. I refuse to buy a GM vehicle in fact because in my experience they're also of crap quality compared to Japanese. Now I don't know the ins and outs of the automobile business, but I suspect unions have torn them a new asshole here, playing a huge part in why they can't compete.
And unions in public sectors like schools, city government, etc. is ludicrous. Mayor Tiburon1724 will throw the union bosses in lake Erie!
they go to mexico and the sunbelt because there are no unions there to make their business less profitable and less able to compete with foreign manufacturers! In that way it's directly the fault of the unions.
The American automakers can't make a car with nearly as many features for anywhere near the price of a good import. I refuse to buy a GM vehicle in fact because in my experience they're also of crap quality compared to Japanese. Now I don't know the ins and outs of the automobile business, but I suspect unions have torn them a new asshole here, playing a huge part in why they can't compete.
And unions in public sectors like schools, city government, etc. is ludicrous. Mayor Tiburon1724 will throw the union bosses in lake Erie!
libertad - 05/11/08 21:01
I don't think necessarily that the loss of jobs should be blamed on unionization. It is my thought that the loss of these jobs is related to the fact that there is little regulation in business. They are allowed to just pack their bags and go to Mexico and still are able to sell their products here in the US. I don't know that this is the case here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Even if it weren't they will move the plant to somewhere within the US were they are desperate and take much lower wages. With these options on the table unions lose. I would not expect my union to work if it were acceptable for my job to be outsourced or moved to another country less fortunate than ours.
I don't think necessarily that the loss of jobs should be blamed on unionization. It is my thought that the loss of these jobs is related to the fact that there is little regulation in business. They are allowed to just pack their bags and go to Mexico and still are able to sell their products here in the US. I don't know that this is the case here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Even if it weren't they will move the plant to somewhere within the US were they are desperate and take much lower wages. With these options on the table unions lose. I would not expect my union to work if it were acceptable for my job to be outsourced or moved to another country less fortunate than ours.
joshua - 05/11/08 20:02
White collar unions are a fucking joke. I will never respect it, bottom line. Believe me, if our great-grandfathers could see it they'd be bewildered. I file teachers unions in the same category.
As far as manufacturing jobs go, that is a different story. At the turn of the century they were absolutely necessary - working conditions were deplorable and completely unsafe. In the end I think it was the only way that necessary labor laws would have ever been ratified. Counting on the private sector to reform those days would have been ludicrous. These days its beyond argument that union leaders, even locally in our area, are now directly responsible for the loss of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Then everybody blames NAFTA after the union stops negotiating! Averages of $65 per hour compensation in a dying industry - those days are long gone.
People deserve fair wages for tough work - I'm all for that. My father is a blue collar guy, and I work in an industry that is hell-bent on directly protecting workers like that in all categories. I can tell you from personal experience, professionally and personally, that in a competitive world these days unions are doing more harm than good. In my view they've outlived their usefulness in many ways. The things that they've fought for are all now part of federal law, and we are now in a situation where union demands are literally bleeding companies dry. I have news - American Axle won't be the last in our area.
White collar unions are a fucking joke. I will never respect it, bottom line. Believe me, if our great-grandfathers could see it they'd be bewildered. I file teachers unions in the same category.
As far as manufacturing jobs go, that is a different story. At the turn of the century they were absolutely necessary - working conditions were deplorable and completely unsafe. In the end I think it was the only way that necessary labor laws would have ever been ratified. Counting on the private sector to reform those days would have been ludicrous. These days its beyond argument that union leaders, even locally in our area, are now directly responsible for the loss of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Then everybody blames NAFTA after the union stops negotiating! Averages of $65 per hour compensation in a dying industry - those days are long gone.
People deserve fair wages for tough work - I'm all for that. My father is a blue collar guy, and I work in an industry that is hell-bent on directly protecting workers like that in all categories. I can tell you from personal experience, professionally and personally, that in a competitive world these days unions are doing more harm than good. In my view they've outlived their usefulness in many ways. The things that they've fought for are all now part of federal law, and we are now in a situation where union demands are literally bleeding companies dry. I have news - American Axle won't be the last in our area.
metalpeter - 05/11/08 17:10
I have to disagree kinda with two of you and think along Paul's line of thinking. I'm not saying that we think the same thing or that I know what he is thinking. Unions are not good or bad and Corporations are not good or bad, it isn't really that simple. Power often corrupts and when some guy working a line should be paid $12-14 dollars an hour (hello no degree needed) to start and they think they should start at $18 you all ready have a problem. Companies want to make a profit just like workers want to but if either side decides it wants to get greedy and take more then they deserve then the company falls apart. The real problem is that it doesn't matter what your job is if you make $10 or $50 an hour up to a certain point you live on the money you make. So you might say well so what if the guy who makes $35 dollars an hour has to go down to $30. He isn't poor but see they have a house, car, trips, maybe kids in school and an entire life style that is based on a certain income level now all of a sudden there check is $200 less a week assuming no Overtime and that is where the problem lies. But see if both sides would try to not be so greedy and work together maybe something could be worked out. I think another problem is that Unions work out contracts when you have a contract work conditions can change and that isn't right. I union should be there to protect you and make sure rules are followed and make sure there are not abuses but they shouldn't be the ones doing the abusing either. We shall see what happens if they really close places it might just be a bluff to stop the strike or they might say fuck america and move to Mexico. On a side note that entire playground thing is so stupid, if some company donates something let them put it up since they are the ones paying for it. If the union guys work on putting up and are paid then it really isn't a donation. I think the company I work for may have donatated it but I'm not sure since I have nothing to do with that kind of stuff.
I have to disagree kinda with two of you and think along Paul's line of thinking. I'm not saying that we think the same thing or that I know what he is thinking. Unions are not good or bad and Corporations are not good or bad, it isn't really that simple. Power often corrupts and when some guy working a line should be paid $12-14 dollars an hour (hello no degree needed) to start and they think they should start at $18 you all ready have a problem. Companies want to make a profit just like workers want to but if either side decides it wants to get greedy and take more then they deserve then the company falls apart. The real problem is that it doesn't matter what your job is if you make $10 or $50 an hour up to a certain point you live on the money you make. So you might say well so what if the guy who makes $35 dollars an hour has to go down to $30. He isn't poor but see they have a house, car, trips, maybe kids in school and an entire life style that is based on a certain income level now all of a sudden there check is $200 less a week assuming no Overtime and that is where the problem lies. But see if both sides would try to not be so greedy and work together maybe something could be worked out. I think another problem is that Unions work out contracts when you have a contract work conditions can change and that isn't right. I union should be there to protect you and make sure rules are followed and make sure there are not abuses but they shouldn't be the ones doing the abusing either. We shall see what happens if they really close places it might just be a bluff to stop the strike or they might say fuck america and move to Mexico. On a side note that entire playground thing is so stupid, if some company donates something let them put it up since they are the ones paying for it. If the union guys work on putting up and are paid then it really isn't a donation. I think the company I work for may have donatated it but I'm not sure since I have nothing to do with that kind of stuff.
james - 05/11/08 16:31
I love unions. The people who brought us the 8 hour work day, weekends, and retirement can't be all bad. Unions in manufacturing jobs are a bit bewildering. Factory jobs should be paying shit because it is a job that could very easily go overseas. Paying a guy in an axel plant more than a teacher is ridiculous and makes no sense in todays economy.
I love unions. The people who brought us the 8 hour work day, weekends, and retirement can't be all bad. Unions in manufacturing jobs are a bit bewildering. Factory jobs should be paying shit because it is a job that could very easily go overseas. Paying a guy in an axel plant more than a teacher is ridiculous and makes no sense in todays economy.
paul - 05/11/08 16:22
I totally love unions - when they don't abuse their power. Although, I am an extremely hard worker - dedicated to my job - I love the protections afforded by working in a union and the benefits I would most likely otherwise not have such as great health care and ample sick time/time off.
I totally love unions - when they don't abuse their power. Although, I am an extremely hard worker - dedicated to my job - I love the protections afforded by working in a union and the benefits I would most likely otherwise not have such as great health care and ample sick time/time off.
I have not worked at Wilson Farms in a long time. When I was there it was pretty good, but I can only say that about the one that I worked at. But that being said even when you do stock stuff it is very easy to miss butter or a thing of cheese and then it goes bad. I have heard (not sure if this is true) of people buying stuff and getting home then a day later returning it because at the time they didn't know it was out of date, or maybe when they bought it was close to date. With good stockers this should not happen of course they have to be good, and in your case not having them makes things kinda tough. I just wanted to add that for things lays, some beer and some chips not sure what else the people who sell it fill the shelves then leave the left over stuff. Sorry you don't have people to stock stuff I can't imagine how much that must suck.
the thing is there are no stock boys. Our labor budget has been cut so dramatically it's just a manager and cashier most of the time...basically imagine 500 hours worth of work to be done each week with 170 hours of labor. The response from upper management is the store manager (me) should just work more since we're salaried. Well I'm already averaging about 10 hours/week over what I agreed to when I was hired and I refuse to do more any longer. For months I worked 75 hours a week. Corners have to be cut, and that's one of the areas we all cut. We devote time to this and people will instead complain about lines at checkout or out of stocks. Its a no-win. Then Erie County has their wonderful pricing scam few know about but I won't get into because it makes me so enraged.
Since you mentioned Wilson Farms, I have to say that place is disgusting...I've gone in there about 4 times in my life...once for milk..which was expired and once for butter, but every tub of butter there was also expired. So they're even more of an offender. Grocery stores are bad too, so the moral of the story is...check your dates.
I have never worked for a Drug store, that being said you are correct that mostly everything is still good after the date. That being said it is illegal to sell things after that date. I don't know if stock boys in stores rotate stuff or not. I know that in stores like wilson farms with dairy products and stuff like that you all ways do. I do think NYS does need more money. I'm sure that there should be a way that in every store people follow the right dates and rotate stock then when it gets with in a month of expiring write the stuff off as damaged. I'm sure a lot of places do sell out dated stuff. But what happens a lot is that two or 3 places are made an example of to try and get money and send a message.
I just read the NY Times article on Cuomo suing CVS and Rite Aid for expired meds.
:::link:::
I sympathize to some extent as I deal with it at my job in social services. Here in NY, financial auditors for the stsate comb through social service recordkeeping with a fine tooth comb looking for any small mistake in documentation that they can find in order to demand that we return money to the state for failure to provide services as documented.
Non profits operate on razor thin margins so having to pay the state back is a serious financial blow, so the documentation and review of the documentation is incredibly intense at social service agencies. People get fired just over documentation issues. You end up feeling like documentation is your main occupation rather than helping people (roll eyes).
However, it looks like CVS and Rite Aid had some problems in the past with the state on this same issue so they should have seent his coming.