1. The glasses.
2. The fact that she was the first female head writer at the male dominated SNL.
3. She was an awesome update host.
4. Mean girls.
5. She tells yo mama jokes and delivers other such similar lines as well as any guy.
6. She's the smartest person to come out of SNL ever.
7. She has quite the extensive improv background. Second City and ImprovOlympic.
8. She still does improv, quite well actually, with asscat.
9. She answers questions online at nbc.com/30_rock.
10. 30 Rock is the funniest show on tv. Each episode is packed with jokes, and yet there is still a compelling story that develops over the season (and you can watch online for free!).
Drew's Journal
My Podcast Link
09/21/2007 17:37 #41241
Ten things I like about Tina FeyCategory: 10 things
09/20/2007 10:27 #41212
Ten things I like about ThursdaysCategory: 10 things
1. For me, they are Fridays (I take Friday off.)
2. Thursday night is 30 Rock night. 30 Rock is the funniest, most underrated show on tv, starring the brilliant Tina Fey. (Have I done 10 things I like Tina Fey yet? Maybe that's next.)
3. At work, I try to make Thursday, "encourage the congregation day." I send letters and make phone calls. It feels good to do that, and it goes a long way in terms of building up the community, too.
4. There's a new Artvoice on Thursdays.
5. Often (e:Janelle) and I grab a beer and/or some wings on Thursday night, and I always like spending time with her (not to mention beer and wings!)
6. Janelle has a standing commitment early on Thursday evening, so in addition to quality time WITH her, I get a little bit of time to be alone.
7. Thursday in the square. Is tonight the Dropkick Murphy's? I may have to be there.
8. Thursdays are relatively chore-free. I knock out a lot of work on Friday, so I tend to chill on Thursday.
9. If this Thursday is a representative sample, Thursday is an active estrip day.
10. Thursday is named after Thor, who's hammer got referenced in the comments of (e:Janelle)'s post. Maybe today is the day that we can finally grab his hammer. "What would we do with it anyway?" you ask? Well, "if I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning, I'd hammer in evening, all over this land. I'd hammer out freedom. I'd hammer out justice, all over this land."
Why do we need a hammer for justice? Is it for the toes of filibustering senators (see (e:Dcoffee) )? I guess I never got that song. Maybe I will when I get a hammer. Please hammer, don't hurt 'em.
2. Thursday night is 30 Rock night. 30 Rock is the funniest, most underrated show on tv, starring the brilliant Tina Fey. (Have I done 10 things I like Tina Fey yet? Maybe that's next.)
3. At work, I try to make Thursday, "encourage the congregation day." I send letters and make phone calls. It feels good to do that, and it goes a long way in terms of building up the community, too.
4. There's a new Artvoice on Thursdays.
5. Often (e:Janelle) and I grab a beer and/or some wings on Thursday night, and I always like spending time with her (not to mention beer and wings!)
6. Janelle has a standing commitment early on Thursday evening, so in addition to quality time WITH her, I get a little bit of time to be alone.
7. Thursday in the square. Is tonight the Dropkick Murphy's? I may have to be there.
8. Thursdays are relatively chore-free. I knock out a lot of work on Friday, so I tend to chill on Thursday.
9. If this Thursday is a representative sample, Thursday is an active estrip day.
10. Thursday is named after Thor, who's hammer got referenced in the comments of (e:Janelle)'s post. Maybe today is the day that we can finally grab his hammer. "What would we do with it anyway?" you ask? Well, "if I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning, I'd hammer in evening, all over this land. I'd hammer out freedom. I'd hammer out justice, all over this land."
Why do we need a hammer for justice? Is it for the toes of filibustering senators (see (e:Dcoffee) )? I guess I never got that song. Maybe I will when I get a hammer. Please hammer, don't hurt 'em.
mrdeadlier - 09/21/07 19:22
Anchor Bar may have "invented" the chicken wing, but Duff's certainly perfected it!
Anchor Bar may have "invented" the chicken wing, but Duff's certainly perfected it!
mrmike - 09/20/07 12:03
I loved Studio 60. Thursdays are great for the Office as well. Your mention of Wings makes me want to swing by for Anchor Bar takeout on the way home tonight. Anchor Bar.....yummmmm
I loved Studio 60. Thursdays are great for the Office as well. Your mention of Wings makes me want to swing by for Anchor Bar takeout on the way home tonight. Anchor Bar.....yummmmm
drew - 09/20/07 11:11
Let's wait until after 30 rock 9 (if its on tonight), and then go out.
And I have a friend that is all about Studio 60, but I never gave it a chance because I had something whatever night it is on and the tivo fairy still has not left a box under my tv.
Let's wait until after 30 rock 9 (if its on tonight), and then go out.
And I have a friend that is all about Studio 60, but I never gave it a chance because I had something whatever night it is on and the tivo fairy still has not left a box under my tv.
janelle - 09/20/07 11:04
Is this a subtle hint to me that we should go out tonight for wings and beer, 'cause you know I'm always up for that after my Thursday night commitment!
Is this a subtle hint to me that we should go out tonight for wings and beer, 'cause you know I'm always up for that after my Thursday night commitment!
james - 09/20/07 11:01
Thank you for this post. I was feeling like this week would never end and was thinking about downing a jug of bleach to speed its end. But, it is Thursday, and that is awesome.
Did you ever watch Studio 66(or whatever) on the Sunset strip? It was the same people who did West Wing but centered around a comedy show, like 30 Rock. So good. So under-rated. So canceled.
Thor's hammer is for smashing in the skulls of giants. The Peter, Paul, and Mary's hammer was for smashing down capitalism I think. Hence the USSR's emblem of a hammer and sickle (the sickle was for more less smashable bits of fillibusters.)
Thank you for this post. I was feeling like this week would never end and was thinking about downing a jug of bleach to speed its end. But, it is Thursday, and that is awesome.
Did you ever watch Studio 66(or whatever) on the Sunset strip? It was the same people who did West Wing but centered around a comedy show, like 30 Rock. So good. So under-rated. So canceled.
Thor's hammer is for smashing in the skulls of giants. The Peter, Paul, and Mary's hammer was for smashing down capitalism I think. Hence the USSR's emblem of a hammer and sickle (the sickle was for more less smashable bits of fillibusters.)
09/19/2007 10:31 #41192
Patrick Henry CollegeCategory: religion
A good exchange regarding right wing students/political activisits at slate.com.
lizabeth - 09/19/07 16:48
Ha! I was actually going to mention that article here, too!
Great minds think alike, I guess. :)
Ha! I was actually going to mention that article here, too!
Great minds think alike, I guess. :)
jason - 09/19/07 12:41
Interesting exchange, Drew. I don't really have enough time to explain why and how people can sometimes annoy the heck out of me when it comes to that debate. I think some people suffer needlessly from myopia or tunnel vision. That's for another time. Thanks for the link.
Interesting exchange, Drew. I don't really have enough time to explain why and how people can sometimes annoy the heck out of me when it comes to that debate. I think some people suffer needlessly from myopia or tunnel vision. That's for another time. Thanks for the link.
09/18/2007 14:00 #41176
How do deal with scary prostelitzingCategory: religion
Here are a number of helpful tips, if you are the focus of aggressive and/or pushy people who are "sharing" their faith. Not all of these necessarily should be used every time, they are just different tools one may utilize, depending on the situation.
a. If you are in a public place, just keep walking. Like a lion, they are more likely to go after the slowest in the heard.
b. Politely explain that you are happy with your beliefs right now, and are not seeking to change them. This will not work with everybody, but it will satisfy reasonable people.
c. Politely refuse to answer any questions, and then remain silent. Most of the time, the person will be working from a script (consciously or not) that requires a response. Deny that, and he or she is in a rough place.
d. If you are comfortable lying, tell them what they want to hear. Your answer key: If you were to die today, you would go to heaven, not because you are a good person, but because you trust in Jesus Christ. And yes, you already worship at a church (use mine if you would like). (NOTE: This is the conservative Christian answer key. Mormons and Scientologists will need something different). I'm not saying that you should lie, but if you DO lie, this is an easy out.
e. If a person begins a conversation because they see that you are with your same sex partner, I would not recommend any conversation at all--the "conversation" is not likely to move past sexuality.
f. Ask for something in writing, so that you may consider their ideas at the time and place of your choosing. (I stole this one from the "how to deal with telemarketers" file.)
g. remain calm, and stick together with your friends.
h. if you really feel gutsy (and you have time), ask a person to back up their claims from scripture. A surprising number of people will not be able to do this, or will do so while distorting scripture in a way that is easy to see.
Ok, I don't really recommend this one for most people, but it is fun if you know your Bible to actually engage.
i. If you DO engage, ask about the big picture. Some people will ask you to believe/do something so specific in order to attain salvation that most people who have professed to be Christians (even some people in the Bible!), throughout time and history, would not be able to believe/do.
j. Ask questions. This is, I think, a good thing for everybody that engages. The more you can get a person talking off of their script, the more you will see who they really are.
k. Share your own experience (again, this is another "advanced technique"), due so in such a way that will not give the person ammunition, but will cause them to see you as a person, rather than a soul to be converted.
j. Ask to see a miracle. I don't really think this will help, but it might be interesting to try!
l. Tell the person that you are willing to try their belief system if they will try yours, first.
m. pretend not to speak English.
That's enough for now.
a. If you are in a public place, just keep walking. Like a lion, they are more likely to go after the slowest in the heard.
b. Politely explain that you are happy with your beliefs right now, and are not seeking to change them. This will not work with everybody, but it will satisfy reasonable people.
c. Politely refuse to answer any questions, and then remain silent. Most of the time, the person will be working from a script (consciously or not) that requires a response. Deny that, and he or she is in a rough place.
d. If you are comfortable lying, tell them what they want to hear. Your answer key: If you were to die today, you would go to heaven, not because you are a good person, but because you trust in Jesus Christ. And yes, you already worship at a church (use mine if you would like). (NOTE: This is the conservative Christian answer key. Mormons and Scientologists will need something different). I'm not saying that you should lie, but if you DO lie, this is an easy out.
e. If a person begins a conversation because they see that you are with your same sex partner, I would not recommend any conversation at all--the "conversation" is not likely to move past sexuality.
f. Ask for something in writing, so that you may consider their ideas at the time and place of your choosing. (I stole this one from the "how to deal with telemarketers" file.)
g. remain calm, and stick together with your friends.
h. if you really feel gutsy (and you have time), ask a person to back up their claims from scripture. A surprising number of people will not be able to do this, or will do so while distorting scripture in a way that is easy to see.
Ok, I don't really recommend this one for most people, but it is fun if you know your Bible to actually engage.
i. If you DO engage, ask about the big picture. Some people will ask you to believe/do something so specific in order to attain salvation that most people who have professed to be Christians (even some people in the Bible!), throughout time and history, would not be able to believe/do.
j. Ask questions. This is, I think, a good thing for everybody that engages. The more you can get a person talking off of their script, the more you will see who they really are.
k. Share your own experience (again, this is another "advanced technique"), due so in such a way that will not give the person ammunition, but will cause them to see you as a person, rather than a soul to be converted.
j. Ask to see a miracle. I don't really think this will help, but it might be interesting to try!
l. Tell the person that you are willing to try their belief system if they will try yours, first.
m. pretend not to speak English.
That's enough for now.
jason - 09/19/07 12:04
Oh come on now. Stoning people is funny.....IN IRAN.
Oh come on now. Stoning people is funny.....IN IRAN.
leetee - 09/19/07 11:21
awe, that is so damn cute, (e:Paul), i didn't know that is how you and (e:Terry) met! :O)
(e:Drew), you only made it half way through the alphabet!
awe, that is so damn cute, (e:Paul), i didn't know that is how you and (e:Terry) met! :O)
(e:Drew), you only made it half way through the alphabet!
joshua - 09/19/07 08:53
Hand them a pamphlet and do some reverse conversion.
Hand them a pamphlet and do some reverse conversion.
fellyconnelly - 09/18/07 23:19
i like the "i'm going to hell anyways, don't waste your breath" answer.
i like the "i'm going to hell anyways, don't waste your breath" answer.
janelle - 09/18/07 16:20
I actually choose to never engage the "real over top" proselytizing type or to provoke them; I just don't think it's really productive or amusing. I usually say no thanks and keep walking, although I do enjoy collecting religious tracts. I recognize that it's hard to walk away if you're in a confined space, but I generally boot people out of my office at work if they're annoying me with little care of them. I do it all the time to gossipers-but that's a side track.
Sorry, (e:Paul). I don't think it's funny when students throw stones at ANYONE, even if it's someone I dislike as much as Ann Coulter.
Probably the most useful thing I've learned from working with DD people that has general application in life is that if you don't like a behavior, ignore it. Anything else just feeds into the behavior.
I actually choose to never engage the "real over top" proselytizing type or to provoke them; I just don't think it's really productive or amusing. I usually say no thanks and keep walking, although I do enjoy collecting religious tracts. I recognize that it's hard to walk away if you're in a confined space, but I generally boot people out of my office at work if they're annoying me with little care of them. I do it all the time to gossipers-but that's a side track.
Sorry, (e:Paul). I don't think it's funny when students throw stones at ANYONE, even if it's someone I dislike as much as Ann Coulter.
Probably the most useful thing I've learned from working with DD people that has general application in life is that if you don't like a behavior, ignore it. Anything else just feeds into the behavior.
paul - 09/18/07 15:59
When I was at school in Flagstaff, Arizona this totally whacked out preacher and wife combo came to preach at our hippy campus in Flagstaff. One of the highlights was when the preacher ask, "Who in the audience was a masturbator?" I swear, everyone in the crowd raised their hand and then he started pointed frantcially all aorund screaming, "Sinners, sinners."
I couldn't take it anymore when he called Mother Theresa a pagan whore who worships Princess Diana. I when and got all up in his wife's face and whispered to her that i was sent to reclaim her soul for the devil. Needless to say she was terrified but in that transaction I made enough of a scene that (e:terry) noticed me. That's essentially how he noticed me and we fell in love shortly there after.
The best part of their isit, was when i told one of my friends back at the apartment we lived in and she said whenthe same group came to her school in Montana, the students actually stoned the preacher and his wife. How freakin' hillarious is that. I am sure they felt like total martyrs.
Besides that my favorite ones are the ones at Thursday in the square (e:paul,32654)
When I was at school in Flagstaff, Arizona this totally whacked out preacher and wife combo came to preach at our hippy campus in Flagstaff. One of the highlights was when the preacher ask, "Who in the audience was a masturbator?" I swear, everyone in the crowd raised their hand and then he started pointed frantcially all aorund screaming, "Sinners, sinners."
I couldn't take it anymore when he called Mother Theresa a pagan whore who worships Princess Diana. I when and got all up in his wife's face and whispered to her that i was sent to reclaim her soul for the devil. Needless to say she was terrified but in that transaction I made enough of a scene that (e:terry) noticed me. That's essentially how he noticed me and we fell in love shortly there after.
The best part of their isit, was when i told one of my friends back at the apartment we lived in and she said whenthe same group came to her school in Montana, the students actually stoned the preacher and his wife. How freakin' hillarious is that. I am sure they felt like total martyrs.
Besides that my favorite ones are the ones at Thursday in the square (e:paul,32654)
drew - 09/18/07 15:27
I am laughing out loud. That is hilarious.
I am laughing out loud. That is hilarious.
zobar - 09/18/07 15:25
I work practically next door to the Scientologists. Generally they're not so bad but sometimes they're doing a recruitment drive or something. I'm also not a big fan of the various denominations of pamphleteers, though sometimes they will provide their address on the outside chance that you really want to talk to them. Here's my plan:
1. Carry around a pamphlet that has contact info.
2. Next time I'm accosted by a Scientologist, give him/her the pamphlet. State that I am in a hurry but here's the address of someone else who would like to talk religion. When one of you convinces the other to switch, give me a call and I'll switch too, no questions asked.
3. Conveniently fail to provide my own contact info.
- Z
I work practically next door to the Scientologists. Generally they're not so bad but sometimes they're doing a recruitment drive or something. I'm also not a big fan of the various denominations of pamphleteers, though sometimes they will provide their address on the outside chance that you really want to talk to them. Here's my plan:
1. Carry around a pamphlet that has contact info.
2. Next time I'm accosted by a Scientologist, give him/her the pamphlet. State that I am in a hurry but here's the address of someone else who would like to talk religion. When one of you convinces the other to switch, give me a call and I'll switch too, no questions asked.
3. Conveniently fail to provide my own contact info.
- Z
james - 09/18/07 15:21
It is so funny that Scientologists are the obnoxious proselytizers around here. Growing up we would always get Jehovah's Witnesses and kids from a local Church (called The Church of Christ? I am not even sure what denomination they were).
As this isn't the greater L.A. area I didn't think there would be any such folk here.
It is so funny that Scientologists are the obnoxious proselytizers around here. Growing up we would always get Jehovah's Witnesses and kids from a local Church (called The Church of Christ? I am not even sure what denomination they were).
As this isn't the greater L.A. area I didn't think there would be any such folk here.
janelle - 09/18/07 15:07
I'm embarrassed to admit that I would have fallen for taking one of those personality tests if my husband hadn't clued me in on the game!
I'm embarrassed to admit that I would have fallen for taking one of those personality tests if my husband hadn't clued me in on the game!
mrmike - 09/18/07 14:58
If only we could befuddle the scientologists who try to sneak their stress business cards into folks hands at the area festivals
If only we could befuddle the scientologists who try to sneak their stress business cards into folks hands at the area festivals
09/17/2007 12:28 #41152
Is religion harmful?Category: religion
Short answer: yes. As seen in the post that inspired this, from last week by (e:paul), it is perfectly clear. Add abortion clinic bombings, terrorism, and the crusades, and it's simple. Religion brings all kinds of problems into this world.
Then, why, pray tell (haha! pun!) would I so involved in religion?
There's a few reasons: In no particular order--
a. (using letters so this is not confused with my "10 things lists") We are, by nature, religious people. By saying this I mean to say that we are all prone to ask questions about meaning for our life, and we are all likely to give ourselves in worship. I believe that even those of us that deny the existence of GOD have other "gods," because we need them. My devotion to u2 and to the Steelers is borderline religious. I know that is pathetic, but I offer it up as an example. Our tendencies to ask "why," to connect with other people, and to give ourselves to something bigger than ourselves are religious tendencies.
b. Religion is still a force for good. Ironically, religious people invented the ideas of religious tolerance and of the separation of church and state. Although we have been on the wrong side of these issues, too, Christians were the driving force behind most of the positive progressive social movements in this country.
c. The best cure for bad religion is not "no religion," but "good religion." This is just my opinion, of course, but I think that the best way to help Christians that behave badly is not to ask them to abandon their devotion (unlikely, to say the least) but to show them a truer picture of the one they are devoted to. I really do believe that the best picture of true justice and true grace is found in Jesus as shown in the Bible. Name calling, threatening encounters such as the one that (e:Paul) had to deal with are, to put it simply, inconsistent with how Christians are called to act. Good religion seeks the best, not for itself exclusively, but especially for its non-adherents.
d. Personal experience. I know that this is different for everybody, but based on what I know and what I've experienced, I believe that God exists, that he existed on earth in the person of Jesus Christ, and that those statements affect everything about the way that I live my life. I COULD try to make sense of those things on my own, but I am better off trying to do so with other people, and that's the seed of religion.
I think my next post will be a guide for non-believers and believers to deal with scary people of faith.
Then, why, pray tell (haha! pun!) would I so involved in religion?
There's a few reasons: In no particular order--
a. (using letters so this is not confused with my "10 things lists") We are, by nature, religious people. By saying this I mean to say that we are all prone to ask questions about meaning for our life, and we are all likely to give ourselves in worship. I believe that even those of us that deny the existence of GOD have other "gods," because we need them. My devotion to u2 and to the Steelers is borderline religious. I know that is pathetic, but I offer it up as an example. Our tendencies to ask "why," to connect with other people, and to give ourselves to something bigger than ourselves are religious tendencies.
b. Religion is still a force for good. Ironically, religious people invented the ideas of religious tolerance and of the separation of church and state. Although we have been on the wrong side of these issues, too, Christians were the driving force behind most of the positive progressive social movements in this country.
c. The best cure for bad religion is not "no religion," but "good religion." This is just my opinion, of course, but I think that the best way to help Christians that behave badly is not to ask them to abandon their devotion (unlikely, to say the least) but to show them a truer picture of the one they are devoted to. I really do believe that the best picture of true justice and true grace is found in Jesus as shown in the Bible. Name calling, threatening encounters such as the one that (e:Paul) had to deal with are, to put it simply, inconsistent with how Christians are called to act. Good religion seeks the best, not for itself exclusively, but especially for its non-adherents.
d. Personal experience. I know that this is different for everybody, but based on what I know and what I've experienced, I believe that God exists, that he existed on earth in the person of Jesus Christ, and that those statements affect everything about the way that I live my life. I COULD try to make sense of those things on my own, but I am better off trying to do so with other people, and that's the seed of religion.
I think my next post will be a guide for non-believers and believers to deal with scary people of faith.
lizabeth - 09/18/07 00:49
Drew, if you've found the impetus for self-examination in Christianity, that's great, but I'm afraid it doesn't work that way for everyone. One of my biggest problems with religion is that it so often seems to allow people to turn their critical thinking skills off instead of helping them hone those skills.
"Why do we do things the way we do?"
"Well, because it says so in this really old book."
"What's so special about this book? How do we know this book is right?"
"Well, because we got this book from God."
"How do you know?"
"Because we just do. Stop asking stupid questions."
And the discussion just ends there. Too many people use their religion as an excuse for not thinking deeply about what they believe and what they do. They just go along with whatever because it's tradition, or because it's what everyone else they know does. I don't think this blind adherence to a belief system does anyone any favors.
Drew, if you've found the impetus for self-examination in Christianity, that's great, but I'm afraid it doesn't work that way for everyone. One of my biggest problems with religion is that it so often seems to allow people to turn their critical thinking skills off instead of helping them hone those skills.
"Why do we do things the way we do?"
"Well, because it says so in this really old book."
"What's so special about this book? How do we know this book is right?"
"Well, because we got this book from God."
"How do you know?"
"Because we just do. Stop asking stupid questions."
And the discussion just ends there. Too many people use their religion as an excuse for not thinking deeply about what they believe and what they do. They just go along with whatever because it's tradition, or because it's what everyone else they know does. I don't think this blind adherence to a belief system does anyone any favors.
drew - 09/17/07 20:43
Everybody justifies their own behavior, right? religious people use their religion, but other people use other things, right? I mean, almost nobody really believes that what they do is bad.
Of course, this doesn't make sense, because there are a lot of bad people in this world, some believers, some not. But ask any person if they are good, and even most of the worst offenders will say "yes," and offer an excuse for their behavior.
Maybe this is why I like my particular faith, because it encourages me to examine my own choices based not on what I think is good, but on some exterior standard. (I'm sure that some other faiths do this, but I can only speak to my own experience).
Where do problems come up? When that standard is distorted, or used on others, rather than on one's self. Or when the inability to meet the standard drives a person to desperation.
For me, the best cure is a religious one: self-examination, confession, and then forgiveness. Repeat until death, hopefully with less to confess each time (but don't count on it--see the posts about mother Theresa!).
Everybody justifies their own behavior, right? religious people use their religion, but other people use other things, right? I mean, almost nobody really believes that what they do is bad.
Of course, this doesn't make sense, because there are a lot of bad people in this world, some believers, some not. But ask any person if they are good, and even most of the worst offenders will say "yes," and offer an excuse for their behavior.
Maybe this is why I like my particular faith, because it encourages me to examine my own choices based not on what I think is good, but on some exterior standard. (I'm sure that some other faiths do this, but I can only speak to my own experience).
Where do problems come up? When that standard is distorted, or used on others, rather than on one's self. Or when the inability to meet the standard drives a person to desperation.
For me, the best cure is a religious one: self-examination, confession, and then forgiveness. Repeat until death, hopefully with less to confess each time (but don't count on it--see the posts about mother Theresa!).
metalpeter - 09/17/07 19:45
The dangerous side of religion is that most people who follow there belief system believe that what they are doing is right. That could be a person who thinks Abortion is killing and killing is wrong but that killing everyone in an abortion clinc is ok. The other danger is that I think a lot of people use there religion to back up or to enforce the moral belief system they all ready have. So for example if they think women are inferior they can use the story of Adam & Eve and how women was created from Adams rib as a way to say women are inferior. Often times people believe that their way is the only way and anyone who doesn't think the way they are is evil and is going to hell, and in some cases that they should die.
To me it does seem that often religion is used to devide people instead of bringing them togather. Again I think it is people using it to do that not the religion its self. I sort of get what I think it was (e:james) said that people should act more like the leaders. In other words when I go to do something I shouldn't do what the church would have me do, I should do what Jesus would do, or at least what I think he would do. That same idea can be applied to other religions to. I think that people should remember that they are being taught be people and not these other very powerfull profets and take that into consideration when they learn things, but most people don't.
I do just want to add that religion does have a lot of good points to but that isn't what the post was about so that is why I'm not getting into them.
The dangerous side of religion is that most people who follow there belief system believe that what they are doing is right. That could be a person who thinks Abortion is killing and killing is wrong but that killing everyone in an abortion clinc is ok. The other danger is that I think a lot of people use there religion to back up or to enforce the moral belief system they all ready have. So for example if they think women are inferior they can use the story of Adam & Eve and how women was created from Adams rib as a way to say women are inferior. Often times people believe that their way is the only way and anyone who doesn't think the way they are is evil and is going to hell, and in some cases that they should die.
To me it does seem that often religion is used to devide people instead of bringing them togather. Again I think it is people using it to do that not the religion its self. I sort of get what I think it was (e:james) said that people should act more like the leaders. In other words when I go to do something I shouldn't do what the church would have me do, I should do what Jesus would do, or at least what I think he would do. That same idea can be applied to other religions to. I think that people should remember that they are being taught be people and not these other very powerfull profets and take that into consideration when they learn things, but most people don't.
I do just want to add that religion does have a lot of good points to but that isn't what the post was about so that is why I'm not getting into them.
janelle - 09/17/07 18:46
Hm, I guess I'll call it a draw on the contradictory argument. It was the least interesting of all of our discussion to me anyway, but it's so damn hard for me to walk away from even the littlest of arguments! But here I am.... w.a..l...k....i.....n......g away!
LOL I need that little walk icon from the chat box.
Hm, I guess I'll call it a draw on the contradictory argument. It was the least interesting of all of our discussion to me anyway, but it's so damn hard for me to walk away from even the littlest of arguments! But here I am.... w.a..l...k....i.....n......g away!
LOL I need that little walk icon from the chat box.
james - 09/17/07 18:28
I do not think that it is contradictory. I personally do not believe that religious doctrine is legitimate. However, there certainly are scores of people who do. I am totally cool with their personal beliefs so long as it does not harm anyone or pollute the public interest. Which is why religious communities that work towards social good are cool shit and people like James Dobson are stinky jerks.
I do not think that it is contradictory. I personally do not believe that religious doctrine is legitimate. However, there certainly are scores of people who do. I am totally cool with their personal beliefs so long as it does not harm anyone or pollute the public interest. Which is why religious communities that work towards social good are cool shit and people like James Dobson are stinky jerks.
janelle - 09/17/07 17:25
(e:james):
"Third, I say I'm following Christ, but so does the guy who bombs the abortion clinic."
I guess the point I was trying to make with the above statement is everyone constructs their own view of their religious follower and their method for understanding religious texts. Those methods and constructions are influenced by our personality, intelligence and environment. Even you have indicated a method for doing so, it seems largely based on your education in history, and you have made a determination that someone who blows people up is not following Christ or Allah. So naturally, people are going to have different views of Christ, Allah, etc...and thus follow them differently and that will sometimes lead to conflict and issues and it's a constant struggle for those faith communities. I guess my overall point is that your statement in your first comment is easier said than done for religious communities and I was trying to flesh out some of those difficulties.
I still think it's contradictory to promote religion for its benefits while ultimately questioning the legitimacy of religion. Especially, since you could theoretically have no religious institution and still have soup kitchens. But I probably think this way because from my perspective I believe in the legitimacy of my faith as well as the benefits of my faith.
Thanks for the challenging dialogue =)
(e:james):
"Third, I say I'm following Christ, but so does the guy who bombs the abortion clinic."
I guess the point I was trying to make with the above statement is everyone constructs their own view of their religious follower and their method for understanding religious texts. Those methods and constructions are influenced by our personality, intelligence and environment. Even you have indicated a method for doing so, it seems largely based on your education in history, and you have made a determination that someone who blows people up is not following Christ or Allah. So naturally, people are going to have different views of Christ, Allah, etc...and thus follow them differently and that will sometimes lead to conflict and issues and it's a constant struggle for those faith communities. I guess my overall point is that your statement in your first comment is easier said than done for religious communities and I was trying to flesh out some of those difficulties.
I still think it's contradictory to promote religion for its benefits while ultimately questioning the legitimacy of religion. Especially, since you could theoretically have no religious institution and still have soup kitchens. But I probably think this way because from my perspective I believe in the legitimacy of my faith as well as the benefits of my faith.
Thanks for the challenging dialogue =)
james - 09/17/07 16:43
The two are not contradictory. The benefits of religion are not necessarily religious in nature. That is, a religious institution can do positive things whether or not there is any legitimacy to their spiritual doctrine. If god didn't exist that soup kitchen or support group is still equally useful. Coming from a point of view that there is no such legitimacy I am uneasy with people prescribing to a world view that is false. However, I also recognize that human perception is infinitely small and that no one can grasp the ultimate reality. So, once again, I am willing to let is go.
"Third, I say I'm following Christ, but so does the guy who bombs the abortion clinic."
Under any sort of scrutiny the guy who blows people up is not following Christ, just as the Muslim car-bomber is not following Allah. They may view their acts as divinely sanctioned, and so consider themselves followers of their god, but seriously, have they even read the book? Where this sort of unhinges itself is that the laws prescribed in these holy books are attached to the cultures of Abraham's, Christ's, and/or Mohammed's time. The old testament LOVES the capital punishment. Talmudic law does not. Jesus turns the other cheek. Crusaders kill in his name. etc, etc. In the struggle to not be outdated one has to redact modernity from an ancient tome. Which certainly causes problems when the same book tells you to love your neighbor and kill your Shia neighbor.
That is why I don't put my faith into the literature of long dead men but in man's capacity for change. As a historian I certainly appreciate dialogue with the past through records like the Bible. But also as a historian I hope that the lessons pulled from that text is set in a modern context of compassion. And if you can do that I don't care if the text is about Jesus, Krishna, or Mighty Taco.
The two are not contradictory. The benefits of religion are not necessarily religious in nature. That is, a religious institution can do positive things whether or not there is any legitimacy to their spiritual doctrine. If god didn't exist that soup kitchen or support group is still equally useful. Coming from a point of view that there is no such legitimacy I am uneasy with people prescribing to a world view that is false. However, I also recognize that human perception is infinitely small and that no one can grasp the ultimate reality. So, once again, I am willing to let is go.
"Third, I say I'm following Christ, but so does the guy who bombs the abortion clinic."
Under any sort of scrutiny the guy who blows people up is not following Christ, just as the Muslim car-bomber is not following Allah. They may view their acts as divinely sanctioned, and so consider themselves followers of their god, but seriously, have they even read the book? Where this sort of unhinges itself is that the laws prescribed in these holy books are attached to the cultures of Abraham's, Christ's, and/or Mohammed's time. The old testament LOVES the capital punishment. Talmudic law does not. Jesus turns the other cheek. Crusaders kill in his name. etc, etc. In the struggle to not be outdated one has to redact modernity from an ancient tome. Which certainly causes problems when the same book tells you to love your neighbor and kill your Shia neighbor.
That is why I don't put my faith into the literature of long dead men but in man's capacity for change. As a historian I certainly appreciate dialogue with the past through records like the Bible. But also as a historian I hope that the lessons pulled from that text is set in a modern context of compassion. And if you can do that I don't care if the text is about Jesus, Krishna, or Mighty Taco.
janelle - 09/17/07 16:07
so sorry, James, I called you (e:jim). you can spit at me or something next time you see me. lol.
so sorry, James, I called you (e:jim). you can spit at me or something next time you see me. lol.
janelle - 09/17/07 16:05
"But odd things like Mother Theresa crusading against condoms in nations with high rates of AIDS infections. Or the Dalai Lama raising money to fund Tibetan separatist militias... it is disheartening".
It's a very human attribute to fall from the ultimate standard or to have inconsistencies in belief. Religious folks aren't immune from that attribute. Xtians might attribute it to the sinful nature of man, but I'll defer to preacher man on that.
"The world would be a much better place if all followers of religion were more like those they are following."
I'd like to say yes to that statement, but I can't. I think it's because it's an easy statement on the surface, but difficult in practice. First, see above, all humans fall short of the perfect standard. Second, some of the individuals whom we might say are examples of what makes religion dangerous, believe they ARE like that religious figure they are trying to follow. Third, I say I'm following Christ, but so does the guy who bombs the abortion clinic.
I'm curious, (e:Jim), but you don't have to answer... You make the statement that the world would be a much better place if followers of religion were more like those they follow, but you also say you question the ultimate benefit of faith. How do you reconcile those two ideas ? ...or do you just accept that they are contradictory? ... Or you haven't figured out a way to reconcile them? (In vietnam, it's okay to have two contrary ideas, it's just a different way of processing information)
"But odd things like Mother Theresa crusading against condoms in nations with high rates of AIDS infections. Or the Dalai Lama raising money to fund Tibetan separatist militias... it is disheartening".
It's a very human attribute to fall from the ultimate standard or to have inconsistencies in belief. Religious folks aren't immune from that attribute. Xtians might attribute it to the sinful nature of man, but I'll defer to preacher man on that.
"The world would be a much better place if all followers of religion were more like those they are following."
I'd like to say yes to that statement, but I can't. I think it's because it's an easy statement on the surface, but difficult in practice. First, see above, all humans fall short of the perfect standard. Second, some of the individuals whom we might say are examples of what makes religion dangerous, believe they ARE like that religious figure they are trying to follow. Third, I say I'm following Christ, but so does the guy who bombs the abortion clinic.
I'm curious, (e:Jim), but you don't have to answer... You make the statement that the world would be a much better place if followers of religion were more like those they follow, but you also say you question the ultimate benefit of faith. How do you reconcile those two ideas ? ...or do you just accept that they are contradictory? ... Or you haven't figured out a way to reconcile them? (In vietnam, it's okay to have two contrary ideas, it's just a different way of processing information)
james - 09/17/07 14:57
It is a little over-reaching to say that religion is a force for good or for bad when, like everything else in this world, it has mounds of both. Religious institutions do a lot of good. They help people in need, though I question the ultimate benefit of faith, and so I am willing to let it go.
Ya, Fred Phelps is an ass and Pat Robertson... makes you wonder if Christ would even recognize his religion as his own with these clowns.
But odd things like Mother Theresa crusading against condoms in nations with high rates of AIDS infections. Or the Dalai Lama raising money to fund Tibetan separatist militias... it is disheartening.
The world would be a much better place if all followers of religion were more like those they are following. In the meantime we will just be grateful for the folks that aren't the Freds and pats of the world.
It is a little over-reaching to say that religion is a force for good or for bad when, like everything else in this world, it has mounds of both. Religious institutions do a lot of good. They help people in need, though I question the ultimate benefit of faith, and so I am willing to let it go.
Ya, Fred Phelps is an ass and Pat Robertson... makes you wonder if Christ would even recognize his religion as his own with these clowns.
But odd things like Mother Theresa crusading against condoms in nations with high rates of AIDS infections. Or the Dalai Lama raising money to fund Tibetan separatist militias... it is disheartening.
The world would be a much better place if all followers of religion were more like those they are following. In the meantime we will just be grateful for the folks that aren't the Freds and pats of the world.
please be redirected to the following link...
:::link:::
I would agree that everything about her is sexy, but I have yet to notice a scar. Where is it?
how about the scar? the scar is damn sexy.