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tinypliny
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11/30/2011 12:17 #55623

Fedora 16 Wireless Connectivity Problems
Category: linux
I completed the switch to F16 yesterday. I always had that error about the nouveau drivers not being able to handle dynamic processor switching between the nvidia video processor and the integrated graphics processors in F15.

In Fedora 16, I have an additional error that shows up in the boot sequence.

[drm:ironlake_update_pch_refclk] *ERROR* enabling SSC on PCH



This is a Toshiba Satellite P750 laptop running an intel core i7. The laptop boots okay after these couple errors. I don't know what it is about. A little googling shows that Linus Torvalds has encountered this error too, on his Lenovo machine.

But I can't find any resolution to the issue.

EDIT!!

This has been fixed as of 14th Dec 2011. I guess things that Linus notices and Google pluses about get more attention than just random users whining about bigger problems.



Nevermind the premature edit. It's back.

But that error is very trivial and the least of my concerns. My primary source of irritation with Fedora 16 is its appalling network connectivity and performance. My first impressions of Fedora 16 were somewhat mixed. The install went very smoothly. They have finally incorporated my wireless driver into the default package. So wireless is recognized right away.

However, the performance of the wireless driver is extremely poor. It is almost impossible to reliably connect with open wifi at work and other hotspots with the new Fedora 16. This is the speed I am getting from the T1 connection at work:
image

While my mobile phone with android was able to connect with every random wireless hotspot all across NYC, the stupid Fedora 16 laptop could not connect to ANY of them. Wireless performance has always been pretty subpar with Fedora 15. Now, with Fedora 16, it is just abysmally horrid. It only connects if the router is like 2 metres away from the laptop or has very strong signals. This is obviously not practical anywhere but home. So essentially, switching to Fedora 16 has converted my laptop into a home-bound desktop.

I cannot possibly be impressed with anything that constantly struggles to connect with wireless access points ALL the time. It's so bad, it's ridiculous.

Specifically, these modules and drivers:
  • Kernel driver in use: rtl8192ce
  • Kernel modules: rtl8192ce
are ultimate crap in driver technology.

Output of dmesg | grep firmware


[ 23.160984] NetworkManager[1048]: monitoring kernel firmware directory '/lib/firmware'.
[ 23.160992] NetworkManager[1048]: NetworkManager[1048]: monitoring kernel firmware directory '/lib/firmware'.
[ 23.309242] rtl8192c_common: Loading firmware file rtlwifi/rtl8192cfw.bin



I just found that I am not the only one whining.

There are other people out there who are having similar network problems with this wretched distribution. I cannot blame it on my linux "newbieness-I-probably-don't-know-what-I-am-doing" this time around.

Fedora 16. You really do SUCK. Big time.


EDIT:
Some cool commands for investigating what exactly is going on here:
sudo cat /var/log/* | grep -e rtl -e firmware -e wlan -e wpa -e etwork | tail -n55
{gives you all the network related "happenings" as recorded by the system logs}

nm-tool
{gives you a list of networks that your computer can see}

iwconfig
{gives you the configuration of the wireless you are currently connected with}

dmesg | grep rtl
{gives you this:}
[ 20.066460] rtl8192ce 0000:03:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 17
[ 20.066469] rtl8192ce 0000:03:00.0: setting latency timer to 64
[ 20.084887] ieee80211 phy0: Selected rate control algorithm 'rtl_rc'
[ 20.085214] rtlwifi: wireless switch is on
[ 23.306151] NetworkManager[1048]: <info> (wlan0): new 802.11 WiFi device (driver: 'rtl8192ce' ifindex: 3)
[ 23.306168] NetworkManager[1048]: NetworkManager[1048]: <info> (wlan0): new 802.11 WiFi device (driver: 'rtl8192ce' ifindex: 3)
[ 23.309242] rtl8192c_common: Loading firmware file rtlwifi/rtl8192cfw.bin
[34868.924818] rtl8192c_common: Loading firmware file rtlwifi/rtl8192cfw.bin

==========
EDIT 2:
To anyone who is checking out this message, click the comment icon in the bottom and check out the comments too.



tinypliny - 12/30/11 17:37
There is also this Fedora-based distribution called Kororaa :::link::: Not so much a stickler for the rigid FOSS philosophy. But I have no idea if wireless would be any better. I might try it out later in January when I am done with all this work I have now...
tinypliny - 12/30/11 17:22
Yes, my wireless modem had no inbuilt support in F15 as well and never showed up. So I used to download and compile the modem driver from the realtek site. With this new kernel in F16, they incorporated drivers of modems that have been around for a long time, finally. But they totally made a hash of it because a good number of us are having trouble with dropped wireless access. I went all around the web reading several forums and the new ubuntu with the gnome 3 shell also seems to have similar issue. This makes me think its a sort of joint issue with the new kernel and new gnome implementation.

The updates did help with the crashes a bit but there has been no improvement on the wireless front thus far. Worse is the attitude of several linux users who just don't want to even admit that wireless support is so subpar.

I honestly want to just wrings my hands and pull out my hair some days. My basic reason for sticking with Fedora is simple. The Debian implementation for R Statistical software is faulty and I am not expert enough to build R for debian on my own. So I migrated to fedora. If you don't have any such issues, have you tried, say Crunchbang Linux or even vanilla Debian with your system? I remember that some of the distributions, for example, WattOS were better with their wireless access compared to utterly disappointing Fedora 16 version.
tinypliny - 12/30/11 17:10
Check out the laptop Fedora forum here: :::link::: If you have some interesting stuff in your /var/log/message, they might be able to diagnose the root of your troubles (or maybe not). It's worth a try!
quovadisnp - 12/30/11 17:09
I'm using an old linksys wusb600n, one of the few adapters I've found that just works on Linux, no setup hassle....till now. The plus for fedora 16 is that now my linksys ae1000 finally shows up. Both devices have the same problem though. Wireless has always been a problem in Linux, I just never expected we would go backwards
tinypliny - 12/30/11 17:01
I know exactly how you feel, unfortunately. :( Take a look at the Fedora forums. It's swamped with wireless-related F16 issues. You could try updating your system: (sudo yum update). It solves some crash issues but wireless connectivity is still just absolutely and horrendously crappy. Which wireless card do you have?
quovadisnp - 12/30/11 15:37
Fedora 16 wireless absolutely sucks. I moved from Fedora 15 to Fedora 16, absolutely no hardware changes. In Fedora 15, my wireless adapter worked decent enough but not as great as in Windows; in Fedora 15 the connection averaged around 150mbps but in Windows the adapter averages at 270mbs. I decided to upgrade to Fedora 16 because it advertised better wireless support......screw you Fedora. Everything regarding wireless is horrible now and I am extremely tired of frequent, frequent, frequent disconnects. I was so excited initially to see other areas of improvement but with this wireless issue I'm losing my faith in Fedora.
tinypliny - 12/15/11 09:20
Nevermind, the ironlake error has come right back.
tinypliny - 12/14/11 16:32
The ironlake error has been fixed in the latest kernel update. Good riddance. One less error message to stare at.
tinypliny - 12/01/11 10:22
Maybe this is the *real* issue:

"I am connected to another network now and I appear to not be having issues. I think my wifi card has a problem with recognizing that all ECE networks are the same, so maybe it keeps switching between them."

Jetblue and Roswell all have multiple access points and have weak signals on many access points. The wireless does fine with my network at home. Maybe the multiple access point issue has not been addressed in the driver. You have the exact same scenario as mine in that Ubuntu thread: :::link::: The OP finally moved to windows which definitely has better wireless connectivity.



tinypliny - 12/01/11 10:14
Another suggestion from the same thread:

"Try to change the ESSID to a one without blanks"

Huh, what am I supposed to do, hack into a public network to change its ESSID?!
tinypliny - 12/01/11 10:13
Another interesting insight about why work's network situation might be bad: :::link:::

"You have many network's in your area and to make it worse many of them are named the same as the one you are connecting too and are on the same channel, all of that is a nightmare with network manager. "
tinypliny - 12/01/11 07:51
Someone in this :::link::: says it works better with the 3.0.0-300 kernel. I am going to boot with the other kernel I have installed and see if it makes a difference.
tinypliny - 11/30/11 23:10
Actually, there was a sort of okay alternative. F15. So yes, my ranting is somewhat unwarranted.
tinypliny - 11/30/11 23:08
I get that point and I agree with the coding philosophy. I would feel the same had I been that coder. But I keep wondering about the practical use of writing elegant code when a good chunk of the audience out there has limited use for it, considering they are stuck with the hardware shipped by a mega corporation. I want people to switch to linux, but I can't give them solid reasons and demonstrations to show that its developers are making it user friendly, It's such a pain to have to struggle constantly for trivial things to work properly. You might argue that windows encourages people to click without comprehension. But do we really need this level of comprehension when we are trying to get work basic work done?

Take my example. R won't play well with perl and latex in windows, so I move to debian. Debian-R won't sort things properly, so I move to fedora. fedora won't connect to networks well... Mac won't do ANY of these well. So there is simply no real alternative but to keep being discontented with the state of OS for my computing needs.

Arrgh. rant rant rant that's all I do. I feel like I am 90+ years old now.
uncutsaniflush - 11/30/11 22:56
Lots of Linux developers don't give a shit if propriatary "binary blobs" that are open-soucred don't work with new kernels and modules. (e:paul) could probably explain better than me as to why. But consider this, you wrote an elegant usefull bit of code that works great for it was written for. But it fucks up a wireless card controlled by a mega-corporation. Would you change your code to please the corporation?
tinypliny - 11/30/11 22:31
So I don't get this. They take the driver built by realtek and incorporate it into a kernel module and ship this module with the main kernel, correct?

Why should that result in a drastically different performance than just installing the driver by itself to a kernel that doesn't have the module? What changes during the process of building the kernel module? Am I making sense or is this a completely clueless question? Well, I know it's clueless, but what I want to know is what is actually happening during the integration process to mess it up?
tinypliny - 11/30/11 22:23
% find the kernel in Fedora that your wireless card liked and use it.

I will try that and report back. :)
uncutsaniflush - 11/30/11 22:14
I'm posting from Fedora 16 using wireless. I'm lucky that wireless in Fedora 16 works the same as in Fedora 15.

The sad truth is that for wireless in Linux yes I have done all that shit. And I've been doing wi-fi Linux since about 2002. Newish kernels and kernel modules can be problematic.
My advice is the same, find the kernel in Fedora that your wireless card liked and use it.

Some of the 3.0.x kernels in Debian won't even recognise my card. But Fedora does.

Good Luck.
tinypliny - 11/30/11 22:08
I tested the live fedora 16 for 2 whole days before installing it. At home, it was perfect with the router 2 feet away and the wireless signal strength at maximum. I had no idea network connectivity would be this bad. I didn't think to test the live cd in the airport and coffee house and at work. Don't you think its perhaps a bit too much to ask an average user to test live cds every single place before trusting a distro to do its job? It is painful. :/

Unfortunately, fedora is the best for my purposes too. The whole debian family has a compiled R source that refuses to sort things properly and it seriously affects my data analyses workflow. It's still a very nice distro - much better than many others but wireless connectivity is very important in a laptop for me. That is the basic reason for having a laptop; to be able to take it places and have your work mobile. I am just terribly disappointed that it can't do this simple job of connecting to networks reliably. I don't have any other options in terms of distros. Fedora is the best for my work. I think I am going back to F15 today.

Everything else feels pretty much the same in F16 as F15. There are some cosmetic differences in Gnome 3 shell. The terminal can be made transparent again. But these hardly count as "improvements" in the face of the gaping network bug. If you are using F16 for a desktop with a wired connection, I am sure you will find it nice than F15. I say, go for it.
uncutsaniflush - 11/30/11 21:22
Sorry to hear that Fedora 16 sucks for you. But I am moved to ask, did you actually test a live Fedora 16 on your laptop before you decided to intall it? If you did, and the wireless actually worked, you should check to see what kernel (and modules) the live system was running and compare it to what kernel and modules you are running in your install.

Ironically enough, I was planning to install Fedora 16 on my Zareason box tonight after testing the live image for a while. Afer playing with sundry distros on the box, I have discovered that Fedora is the bestest distro for me. With minimal tweaking, it provides me with just about everything I want in a Linux distro other than a pre-configured E17 environment.

I'll report the results.

11/29/2011 13:05 #55621

Tale of two kernels?
Category: linux
What's with the two kernels in Fedora 16?

rpm -qa | grep kernel
kernel-3.1.2-1.fc16.x86_64
kernel-3.1.0-7.fc16.x86_64

Anyone know about this?

paul - 11/29/11 21:43
You have both installed. You could switch between them in your bootloader. Installing a new one but keeping the old one allows you to switch back if something is wrong. I generally have at least two in the bootloader aand sometimes more if you compile any customer kernels.

11/29/2011 00:49 #55620

Cityscape
Category: tourism
Loving this view...

image

11/29/2011 00:13 #55619

Retro Memories
Category: music
Walked past a club in Greenwich and was pleasantly surprised to find Sting wafting out, instead of the usual drone-y music.



Such a perfect song.
tinypliny - 11/29/11 13:04
Oops, yeah. I meant Greenwich Village aka west village.
uncutsaniflush - 11/29/11 02:39
What are you doing in Connecticut? I thought you were visiting NYC.

11/28/2011 22:27 #55618

Quadratic Splines
Category: the odes
This is exactly what I had in mind ages ago when I was hunting for a low work table. And it is available in a million different colour combinations. Including an orange and black gradient spectrum.

image
image
image


But the price tag is $4000+. Apparently there will be a 10% discount after Christmas. Fat difference that would make to the price. That's costlier than a lower end used car. Maybe I should keep my eyes peeled for discarded table tops on pavements, paint them orange and black and hinge them together into a revolving set...

This post should really be categorized as Impracticality+++ in every way.