of course, if this were going to become a reality, the blueprint for this plan would have to be much more thought out than whatever i just came up with a 3 am this morning. The whole DNA testing thing, it completely devastates me when i think about innocent people being put to death (or spending any length of time in jail for that matter). I stand firm on the fact that i don't think we have the right to kill anyone...even if they murdered 100 people. i didn't take the DNA testing into consideration- which makes me feel even stronger about keeping them alive to serve a better purpose. What good is that evidence if theyre already dead??? Using them for testing wouldnt be killing them....but anyway
to (e:Drew)- you may have missed my question about the fear of the death penalty not stopping these people from comitting these acts... or going to jail for life, For many of these people jail is considered a safe haven... whatever. Im just wondering if another alternative might make them think twice about their own life and how theyd like to live it.
Our constitution is constantly being amended to reflect modern times... I think cruel and unusual punishment might make a difference.
Also, the psychological effects: I think it would make people more humanized, compared to the "animal" in the cage.... look at the people who run our systems... you mean to tell me that theyre not already de-SENSITIZED? Have you ever been to jail?I think because we're treating these people so kindly, the people running everything despise them for their acts and no longer see them as human anyway. I could be terribly wrong here, but i think any human with emotion seeing another in a cage like that would actually bring out sympathy.. and compassion maybe even... which is what i think these people need. To just Kill killers and wipe them off the face of the planet..what is that teaching anyone?? I think the families would accept this as the persons punishment, punishment they ASKED FOR by committing horrible crimes that would have left them to be killed ... and would rather have their family members alive than dead because of their terrible mistakes. I don't know exactly what we'd do with these people after their testing period was over, but I havent gotten that far into this here...whatever you want to call it. Theory, hypothesis..whatever.
I think that medical testing on people who have comitted horrendous acts of violence would not only set a precedent in our country,and set an example to many, but it may even give the criminals a newfound respect for their own lives, and their own humanity. Kind of like the SAW movies... in a sick twisted way....people who have taken the miracle of life for granted.. when faced with death what would they willing to give to have their lives back....
it may or may not work, but its something to ponder.
Bridgette's Journal
My Podcast Link
07/10/2007 14:01 #40037
new thoughts on last entryCategory: death row
07/10/2007 04:16 #40032
the things that inspire us at 3amCategory: death row
Why are we wasting valuble bodies of people on death row when we could be donating them to science and using them as test subjects instead of rats and other animals??? Aside from the animal rights point of views... i hold those, too, don't get me wrong.. but seriously...we spend all this $$$ housing people in jails until they're put to death, all the while knowing that we're just going to kill them. Just like we spend all this $$$ on testing animals that have resemblances to the human make up, and re testing and testing some more... why do that when we could just test actual human beings? If the idea of being put to death does nothing to stop a person from comitting a serious crime, would the idea of being treated like an animal? A real animal... not in a jail where criminals get to sleep on beds and eat real food and change their underwear... I mean throw them naked into a cage full of that rat bedding shit and feed them dogfood... yeah it might sound inhumane but theyre serious criminals...who would have otherwise been put to death. Their lives would be spared (minus whatever effects the tests have), stop the "eye for an eye" mentality and the controversy surrounding that notion...(we don't have a right to put someone to death even though they killed someone else) .... and use their already wasted lives to eventually save thousands of others who may actually do something positive for this planet. Let them die with some kind of real dignity while saving taxpayers a little bit of cash, or putting that $$ to better use. People make their own choices, and if you choose to live like an animal despite your humanity then thats obviously what you want so why the hell not?? Im sure that there are people out there that have already thought this through, but i've never heard this theory so I think im an absolute genious because it just sounds so damn practical!!! Too practical for people in power to come up with on their own. To whomever thought about this shit first... IM WITH YA ALL THE WAY!!!!! SAVE ANIMALS, SAVE LIVES, SAVE $$$$. seriously... its a win win situation!!!!
joshua - 07/10/07 13:49
Uh - no. (e:paul) that sort of language is fear mongering meant to cause paranoia in people that are otherwise completely law abiding citizens. Its irresponsible to suggest to somebody that they could be put on a death row list arbitrarily, or that the rules are arbitrarily set. That is like saying that all laws and societal norms are arbitrarily set, which would also be untrue. You don't like the death penalty - I think it can be left simply at that.
Where I do agree with you is that the law enforcement system is not perfect. If a state enacts a death penalty law, I think its fair to ask for a very high standard to ensure that innocent people aren't killed. 30 years ago this was impossible, which is why I support organizations and individuals that work to use DNA evidence to clear death row inmates, or other inmates that are proved to have been innocent using modern day technology. I don't think there ever is or ever will be a "perfect" legal system, but at least some of us are working towards helping those people wrongly accused of crimes to become free. I think thats one of the noblest endeavors a lawyer can pursue.
Anyway, all of this is not related to the question Bridgette is asking. Constitutionally this would be impossible, let alone the moral arguments that come from such an idea.
Uh - no. (e:paul) that sort of language is fear mongering meant to cause paranoia in people that are otherwise completely law abiding citizens. Its irresponsible to suggest to somebody that they could be put on a death row list arbitrarily, or that the rules are arbitrarily set. That is like saying that all laws and societal norms are arbitrarily set, which would also be untrue. You don't like the death penalty - I think it can be left simply at that.
Where I do agree with you is that the law enforcement system is not perfect. If a state enacts a death penalty law, I think its fair to ask for a very high standard to ensure that innocent people aren't killed. 30 years ago this was impossible, which is why I support organizations and individuals that work to use DNA evidence to clear death row inmates, or other inmates that are proved to have been innocent using modern day technology. I don't think there ever is or ever will be a "perfect" legal system, but at least some of us are working towards helping those people wrongly accused of crimes to become free. I think thats one of the noblest endeavors a lawyer can pursue.
Anyway, all of this is not related to the question Bridgette is asking. Constitutionally this would be impossible, let alone the moral arguments that come from such an idea.
paul - 07/10/07 10:08
Wow, there are a lot of moral problems with this but there are some practical one to.
First of all, the rules by which we determine people are to be murdered on death row are arbitrary. Meaning that at any point they could change, meaning that you could be on that list. I mean it is on a state by state, case by case basis.
And more importantly, and as (e:drew) already mentioned, the justice system is far from perfect, they make many mistakes. It is not unheard of for people on death row to be found not guilty, even after they are put to death.
Wow, there are a lot of moral problems with this but there are some practical one to.
First of all, the rules by which we determine people are to be murdered on death row are arbitrary. Meaning that at any point they could change, meaning that you could be on that list. I mean it is on a state by state, case by case basis.
And more importantly, and as (e:drew) already mentioned, the justice system is far from perfect, they make many mistakes. It is not unheard of for people on death row to be found not guilty, even after they are put to death.
drew - 07/10/07 09:19
Sure it works, EXCEPT:
1. DNA testing has shown a lot of people on death row to be innocent. Not most of them, mind you, but do we really want to do this to a person that might, in fact, be innocent?
2. Our constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.
3. This would mess psychologically with EVERYONE involved--not just the one who is going to die. His or her family, the testers, the guards, even the people that benefit from this "research," will be de-humanized in the project.
I'm sorry. This is a really bad plan.
Sure it works, EXCEPT:
1. DNA testing has shown a lot of people on death row to be innocent. Not most of them, mind you, but do we really want to do this to a person that might, in fact, be innocent?
2. Our constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.
3. This would mess psychologically with EVERYONE involved--not just the one who is going to die. His or her family, the testers, the guards, even the people that benefit from this "research," will be de-humanized in the project.
I'm sorry. This is a really bad plan.
07/05/2007 22:32 #39933
spongebong hemppantsCategory: stoner cartoons
hey all... this is pretty silly......
07/03/2007 20:42 #39900
My B-day was so kick ass!!!Yesterday was my 25th bday. I started the day hanging out with my sis and her bf, just chillen and drinkin beers. My sis bought me a pretty flower and this phatty hemp that im displaying and a pair of brown flipflops. The necklace and the shoes matched the outfit i chose to wear so perfectly! I felt like such a hottie!! Then my awesome friend Oda brought me a really intense chocolate sucker that rocked my world. So we drank more beers...not that we needed to.... and they built me a little firepit in our driveway thats supposed to be the back yard. my sis's bf built the pit and Oda, the stud that she is, would go off to pee and miraculously come back with a ton of wood for our fire. That was really hot! ROCK ON ODA!!!! we figured if we couldn't be at the rainbow family gathering we might as well create a similar atmosphere! How crazy! This is how we party in the ghetto!!! We decieded to split the last chocolate sucker somewhere around 10 or 11 pm. why not, right? we burned the fire til 7am, which really was a dumb idea because we burnt a hole in our driveway. But it was fun anyway, so i don't really care right now. I love the fact that I have the coolest friends that will do the silliest crazy shit with me! And it means so much to me that my family and friends will go to so many lengths to show me that they love me and appreciate my presence in their lives. THANK YOU FOR BEING SO WONDERFUL!!!!
jason - 07/04/07 12:34
Well, happy b-day to you. Sounds like you had a great time.
Well, happy b-day to you. Sounds like you had a great time.
metalpeter - 07/04/07 11:16
Happy Birhday. Well now that the driveway is damaged you might as well keep using that same spot as a fire pit. Sounds like you had a great time and that is all that matters on your birthday.
Happy Birhday. Well now that the driveway is damaged you might as well keep using that same spot as a fire pit. Sounds like you had a great time and that is all that matters on your birthday.
fellyconnelly - 07/04/07 11:03
happy birthday!
happy birthday!
mrmike - 07/03/07 21:21
Cool, belated happy birthday
Cool, belated happy birthday
06/26/2007 00:02 #39808
shitting myself?!?!?!my x called me yesterday. I almost didn't answer the phone. It was the middle of the day, even in his timezone, and he sounded completely sober. I was really hungover...I went to a wedding with an older lady friend of mine and since I didn't know anyone, and there was an open bar...i decided to indulge. My baby was at my friends parents house, so I had yet another excuse to pound the bourbon and cokes.... So anyway, he calls me. "What the fuck do you want from me?" I didn't know what else to say. Timing just sucked. My mom was over and my sis was going off on some bitchy tangent... I didn't even do anything. i was so pissed. I'm surprised he didn't hang up on me. but wtf, its been a year. we broke up 4/20/06....an we tortured each other emotionally for months thereafter. and I mean torture. Everything with us is fire.... whether its good or bad its just so damn hot! Never in my life have i felt this kind of intensity.
We talked, and he divulged the fact that he misses me, and he still loves me. He says he's coming to see me and the baby. He doesn't ever say things just to make me feel better. When he says things like this, he really does mean them in the heat of that moment. but when the moment is over, so is whatever emotional outburst just happened... and then its like nothing happened at all. I played the game, back and forth, I love you, I hate you, I miss you, i hope i never see you again...no matter what shit I tell myself, or what anyone else has to say ( and believe me, people sure don't hesitate to voice their opinions) no matter how much i try to despise him, it always comes back to I love you......
Is he really coming? is he really going to come here all the way from Colorado to set this thing straight with me? he said it perfect when he said that we either need closure or we need to start a new chapter....my heart and my head can't seem to reach a common conclusion.
But its been a year, baby. so much has happened. so much. I would really like to think that we can forgive each other for the crimes we both committed against our love. People strive so hard to create in their relationships what we just naturally had... the intimacy, the passion, the magic....... and even from opposite sides of the country you still felt me...our energies were still so damn in tune...what the hell would the point of any of this be...if you werent meant to be my love?????
We talked, and he divulged the fact that he misses me, and he still loves me. He says he's coming to see me and the baby. He doesn't ever say things just to make me feel better. When he says things like this, he really does mean them in the heat of that moment. but when the moment is over, so is whatever emotional outburst just happened... and then its like nothing happened at all. I played the game, back and forth, I love you, I hate you, I miss you, i hope i never see you again...no matter what shit I tell myself, or what anyone else has to say ( and believe me, people sure don't hesitate to voice their opinions) no matter how much i try to despise him, it always comes back to I love you......
Is he really coming? is he really going to come here all the way from Colorado to set this thing straight with me? he said it perfect when he said that we either need closure or we need to start a new chapter....my heart and my head can't seem to reach a common conclusion.
But its been a year, baby. so much has happened. so much. I would really like to think that we can forgive each other for the crimes we both committed against our love. People strive so hard to create in their relationships what we just naturally had... the intimacy, the passion, the magic....... and even from opposite sides of the country you still felt me...our energies were still so damn in tune...what the hell would the point of any of this be...if you werent meant to be my love?????
That is good in theory but there are some flaws with it. It sounds like something they would do in china or maybe even did do in china at some point. That is what happend in the holocost. Nazi scientists got a lot of good scince results from seeing what happens to the body at extreme cold and hot tempatures. There has been some debate on if what was learned from that tourture should be used or not. Moraly or philospicly speaking it is be a preaty good debate.
There has also been an idea that inmates could be shiped off to war. I don't know if I want my army full of criminals or not but it would count as time served and when their tour of duty was over then if they are still alive then they can go free.
The problem with both those plans is that they have to be voulentery. We have these thing called rights in this country. Being forced to fight in a war or being a lab rat would be cruel and unusal punishment.
If this where to be inacted you would have to have so much oversite. I can see now how abused this system would could be. Lets say someone was in a case where the death penaltiy was voted yes on. I can see lawlers making a deal like this "Johny" "My name isn't John it is Jaun" "Oh ok Jaun I'm sorry if you get convicted you will be killed with an injection but the prosecuter has said that if you pled guilty you will only have to go through 2 years of medical testing" "Can you get me off" "no there is to much evidance, I can try to appeal but You will be exacuted and this will drag on for years" "ok sign me up". I can smell the coruption. I can see the medical industry getting envovled. That is why if this where to take place there would have to be a lot of oversite and people watching to make sure that peoples rights wheren't taken away.
One of the problems is that most people who get the death penalty and the same ones who wind up in jail, minorties and the poor. I'm not saying that criminals don't commit crimes. But if you are a minority or poor or worst yet poor the system is stacked and you don't have much of a chance. That is one of the reasons I'm not for the death penality. But those same circumstances would be a part of this new system. Yes we do have a better justice system then a lot of countries. But I don't think that we can have a system like what you are suggesting until it is a fair and balanced system.
I don't believe in the death Penality for one other reason. And that reason makes me to want this idea of yours to work and if it was done right it could work. If one belives that killing is wrong then killing a killer is just as wrong. Moraly if I killed your brother then you have the right to kill me, or someone else in my family? No and if you did then that would mean that in retalltion for my death then my family would have the right to kill someone in your family and it would never end. So if killing someone is a crime then when someone is hung then all those guys in masks should be hung then the people who hung the hangers should be hung, since killing is punishable by death.
1: I absolutely think people who are executed or die in jail should be organ donors. There are not nearly enough. Frankly, I think you should BY DEFAULT be an organ donor, unless you go through the effort of filling out a form at the DMV NOT to be- rather than the other way around. If not, I think you should be FORCED to fill out an organ donor card (i mean think about it and fill it out, whether you decide yes or no- not just 'take it home to think about it') when you get your driver's license, AND you should be forced to do a living will/ health care proxy. Everyone says "but young healthy people don't need living wills"- WRONG- they are exactly the people that do. Because god forbid they can't make their own decisions- we need to know what they want done.
2: I'm with you that jail/punishment is not severe enough. I'm sick of hearing people bitch about the 'poor living conditions' in jail. Ummm- it's JAIL. You're not supposed to ENJOY it. People murder each other, and get sentenced to live, but end up serving like 6 months in a minimum security place. I say let the pot-smokers out, and keep the 'real' bad guys in longer.
seriously mike?? that is so f-ing cool! why didnt you ever tell us that before????? that is perfect party mingling convo.
Yeah, it was interesting. When he took on more clients, Tom Brokaw called my apartment looking for him.
HELL YES!!!! HOW AWESOME IS THAT!?!?!?! Screw you guys...DR. Kevorkian would agree with me!!! (lol j/k bout the screw you guys thing.... but that got me pumped!)
I worked on a book with Dr. Kevorkian a bunch of years ago. He was advocating that very policy, he wanted a formal program of organ donation for death row immates.
Made an awful lot of sense