The purpose of the war is rarely explained or questioned. Here's some words from the Whitehouse website "If We Withdraw Prematurely.. Violent Extremists Would Be Emboldened.. Al Qaeda could gain new recruits and sanctuaries.. Iran would benefit from the chaos and be encouraged in its efforts to gain nuclear weapons and dominate the region. Extremists could control a key part of the global energy supply. Iraq.. could face a humanitarian nightmare, and democracy movements throughout the region would be violently reversed."
All these Whitehouse points can be refuted, here we go... We embolden violent extremists by allowing military contractors to Kill civilians without punishment. Al Qaeda's biggest recruiting and training tool is Iraq, and if we left Al Qaeda would have a diminished purpose, fewer recruits and the Iraqis would kick them out. Iran has been the biggest beneficiary of the Iraq War so far, we got rid of their enemy Saddam, dismissed the UN which might have prevented nuclear activity, and more. The Mideast might control their own oil, ok that's true, but what gives us the right to control someone else's oil? Iraq already faces a humanitarian nightmare 2 million refugees inside Iraq and 2 million in neighboring countries, the whole region faces a humanitarian crisis, and nothing the US has done so far has helped. Democracy movements? Anybody seen any Mideast countries saying "Check out Iraq, I need to get me some of that Democracy!"
The Whitehouse narrative is obviously a bunch of BS, and the American people are skeptical about what they say, but we don't really have an alternative. The press usually treats the government opinion as truth, all other explanations are conspiracy theories.
What's the purpose of this war? I'm asking you, why did we invade, and why are we still there. I just don't get it.
We Americans live in a bubble of official sources, part of the reason is that there aren't many journalists in Iraq, and the ones who are there, are usually embedded with American troops and government officials all day. This media blackout means that the Bush administration can create its own narrative about what's going on in Iraq, and we have very little evidence to contradict them.
In the eyes of the American News Media, the view of the government is the official objective analysis, and should be assumed to be as close to the truth as we can get. Why? The officials in government are self interested. This government in particular, is the most secretive and least transparent in this nations history. They won't let us see what they are doing, but instead they will explain it to us in press briefings. Information Control. (Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia by the way)
I'm rambling a bit. Anyway. Here's my thoughts on the goals and purpose of the Iraq War.
The US strategy is NOT, to find common ground between warring factions and foster a lasting peace. The real theory is Divide and Conquer. We are handing out weapons like they're candy, and loosing thousands more. We're training the Shiite army and police to use our weapons against Sunni insurgents, then we turn around and give weapons to Sunni insurgents to drive out foreigners from Al Qaeda. We are essentially arming two militias that hate each other, we are giving them both guns and teaching them how to kill.
8 officers currently serving in Iraq wrote an op-ed and sent it to the times, they said "Armed Sunni tribes have indeed become effective surrogates, but the enduring question is where their loyalties would lie in Americas absence. The Iraqi government finds itself working at cross purposes with America on this issue because it is justifiably fearful that Sunni militias will turn on the government of Iraq should the Americans leave." I'd encourage you to read the whole thing,

That leads me to my next point, we're not supposed to leave Iraq. The war may be bad for Military families, Iraqis, Taxpayers, America, and just about everyone except defense contractors, but that's OK. We blow things up, pretend to rebuild them, and get rich. Good plan, from that perspective the war is going perfectly. They waste our money, and that's just fine, boosts the economy, or something. $88 billion in contracts for Iraq are being audited for fraud

The thing is, since we've been in Iraq everyone has been laughing at us. Iran Russia, we started an arms race and there's nothing we can do about it because we look like fools in another Vietnam. But let's stay there indefinitely.
Here's Tom Friedman after he got back from Iraq on what he saw, "Peace in Iraq has to be built on a Shiite-Sunni consensus, not a constant balancing act by America. So far, the surge has created nothing that is self-sustaining. That is, pull us out and this whole place still blows in 10 minutes."

Iraq is part of a Mideast strategy, which is stupid, evil, and harmful to America. Need proof? "Under the guise of promoting a 'security dialogue' in the Persian Gulf, the Bush Administration has proposed $63 billion in arms transfers to the Middle East over the next ten years... $20 billion worth of high-tech arms to Saudi Arabia and the other oil-producing states in the Gulf." Great Plan, makes me feel real safe.

Divide and conquer, establish permanent bases from which to demand power, and make Americans comfortable with permanent war. Why? I can't figure it out. Power for the sake of power? just for the sake of staying on top in the world, as PNAC stated?

I don't know, it just doesn't make sense. Why stay in Iraq when it helps Al Qaeda and hurts America? Why trash international law in favor of the bomb, when it just proves we are selfish, destroys our alliances, and creates enemies? Why create Mercenary armies, send 180,000 contractors to Iraq, and blow billions of dollars on nothing? Why create so many enemies? Why destroy so many families?
Are we just trying to save face? the best way to do that would be to impeach Bush, no really, I'm serious.
I'm linking to this article again, because it is one of the few perspectives from inside Iraq, from the 8 soldiers in the NY times

Here's Bill Moyers talking about them. video

2 videos inside Iraq, I posted these before but they're a rare and recent glimpse inside Iraq.


Thanks
I promise, non political entries soon! woo hoo! those might not take 2.5 hours to write!
First of all the War is Over. Once we beat the Iraq Army and got Saddam we won. What we are in now is ocupation.
Why we went to war is because we where attacked and we had to respond with equal and even more force so that we look strong. See if any one attacks us and then when we strike back we destroy there country then no body else will fuck with you. It is kinda like if someone in school is picking on you what you do is go out to the playground find the meanest bad ass bully out there and in front of everybody bit the shit out of him.
The other reason we went to war was Iraq hide Al Quda. But that was stupid what we should have done was fly was have spies and seceret units over there and attack them and take them out like in the old days. Maybe even invade and say we only want the terrorists and go after them and leave the country alone.
Saudi Arabi are our buddies and some of them actully fund the people who attack use but see they are our friends so we can't go after any of them
Sadam did keep his people in line and we can't do that for a number of reasons. Yes some people like us there and some people don't. If you come in and try to liberate people then you morally you can't just go now lets let them all die. When we disbandend the army we lost that level of protection. At the same time though The US staying there hurts the people we are trying to protect. Anyone who doesn't like the us knows to come to IRAQ and can fight us. Of course this could have been avoided if the UN sent troops in to all the sections to keep the peace. Oh yeah that is right the UN doesn't mean jack shit anymore because they told us not to go in and we "Fuck you we are doing what we want" and then what did the UN do nothing. If the UN did what it was supposed to there would have Been UN troops around Iraq making sure the US didn't invade. Oh yeah that's right most of the troops are really americans.
The real problem is that you have 3 groups of people who don't like each other and then you have people who don't like us there also, so I don't know how you fix something you fucked up this bad.
Its interesting you mention that Carolinian... I think FDR wouldn't have thought twice about doing things (and didn't, for that matter) that in these times he would get impeached for, if it meant protecting the nation's interests.
There weren't international law kinda trials for Nazi insurgents.
:::link:::
That's pretty much how the "greatest generation who fought the last good war" dealt with terrorists. By the standards of WWII, Guantanamo is club med.
Some people wonder if there is ever a good reason to stay in a war... my answer to that question is "yes" but of course all of that is dependent on the situation. In Iraq, because of the reason I stated, this is why I think we need to stay... however unfortunate and sad. We have an obligation and we have to meet it. We've lost credibility around the globe, but to not clean up our mess would make it even worse.
Last night I was watching a news program and one of the pundits actually had a good point to make - one of the differences between Vietnam and this war is that in the 70's, the political climate at home made the soldiers in harms way dissolutioned, whereas in Iraq this is not necessarily the case. There are some anti-Iraq veterans out there now that are organizing, but I'd venture to say (based on the words of the majority of the soldiers that I've heard and read, anyway) that this isn't a situation where there is widespread dissolutionment... yet anyway.
As for the Iraqi law, that may be true... I can only assume that this sort of law is in place. The fact that Americans are enforcing a foreign law seems bizarre to me, but I have to say in the military's defense that since the war started, there has NEVER been a lack of gory pictures to show on TV... the media has always made sure of that. Given the plethora of gory shit the media is eager to air and has never had a shortage of (to what end besides "the truth" I have no idea... it should be no surprise that war is gory), I have to say that I don't know why people are worried about this incident. I don't think we are in danger of having a media in Iraq where the incidents are dictated to the press - and lets not forget the incidents where the media completely fabricated or took photos out of context in print, or intentionally altered photos in order to make them look worse, in the case of Reuters. The media can't necessarily be trusted whole heartedly either these days, although unfortunately they are the only independent voice available. I hate to say it, but this is exactly why I don't trust this article from the NYT... which is an organization that has proven its bias and editorial slant time and time again. However, I will say that an article written by any soldiers (whether or not they were intentionally collected to present a certain point of view) deserve to be read and considered every time. For me this is actually part and parcel... lefties critical of the war embrace these soldiers because they like what they say. When the anti-war left don't like what the soldiers say, they take out ads IN THE SAME PAPER as this article and call them traitors. I'm sorry but that is a disgrace.
I don't know if chaos in Iraq was intentional... I'm not prepared to enter Alex Jones territory and accept that sort of assumption to be true! Its in our interests for Iraq to be stable.
Here's a side note about information control. From todays news.
"A daring ambush of bombs and gunfire left Poland's ambassador pinned down in a burning vehicle Wednesday before being pulled to safety ...
American authorities CONFISCATED an AP Television News videotape that contained scenes of the wounded being evacuated. U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl told AP that _IRAQI LAW make it ILLEGAL to photograph or videotape the aftermath of bombings or other attacks_."
Iraqi Law?!?!? Yea right, what a ridiculous excuse. The iraqis can't even have elections, but they came up with that law right away, top of the list, really important to the Iraqis that Americans don't see wounded polish people on American TV. Give me a break.
Information control, Can you say memory hole?
That seems to be the best reason to stay in Iraq, we broke it, we fix it. it's pretty sad really. How'd you like to be a soldier, "Bush totally screwed this place up, we have to stay until we fix his mess." that must really inspire some pride in the mission. Meanwhile we're still making bad decisions, passing out weapons and cash, allowing widespread fraud by American contractors who are above the law, insisting on Oil privatization, phones and electricity still don't work after 4 years. and at the same time the Whitehouse is trying to screw Iraq veterans.
as for things 'seeming' to improve, read this article if you haven't yet :::link:::
I'm all for spying and gathering inelegance, and the war has hurt our alliances, so any inelegance other countries are gathering, we don't have access to, because they don't trust our good intentions, and why should they.
Terrorism is a crime, not a country, or a philosophy, it is an illegal means to any number of different ends. We should be using international law like we insisted upon for the Nazis, but instead Bush set out to dismantle the UN so we could go it alone.
as for pre war planning, you gotta see the movie No End in Sight. :::link::: There were tons of plans developed over years of study, bush opted for a free market pipe dream, which has so far kept Iraq in chaos. That's why I'm starting to think chaos is the goal, not peace. Everything they've done has led to chaos, can it realy be a mistake?
David -
The dirty little secret is that we aren't leaving Iraq anytime soon, regardless of what the anti-war crowd is being told. I think that DailyKos/MoveOn are going to be sorely disappointed - the new date being tossed around by Democrats and Republicans alike is 2013. I'm telling you - the anti-war crowd are being placated by the likes of Obama and Hillary now, but you are going to be ignored once one of them gets the nomination.
We all know the initial rationale behind the war. At the moment, and by all accounts things in Iraq "seem" to be improving, our current purpose in Iraq is to stabilize the country - which itself is an extreme uphill battle. Politically the country is fractured and there is no way to quickly resolve 1,000 year old tribal disputes.
Its unfortunate that we've never really had quality human intelligence in the Middle East, primarily because of the gradual decline in our ability to put actual people on the ground (yeah, I'm talking about spying). It appears that nobody considered in an adequate way what would happen once we cut Saddam out. In a morbid way, Saddam's presence stabilized the tribal factions out of fear. Now that there is no fear, and they've never bothered to consider how to get along without Saddam, our job is much harder. How do you predict a reaction that has never been considered by the population itself, let alone our inadeuqate intelligence capability in the region?
I think that many people fail to consider that in the past, even in the best of conditions, the US occupied Japan until 1952. It took us a full seven years, with no war in the country, to rebuild and stabilize their nation. That sort of comparison highlights exactly how difficult a task we took on in Iraq.
People want to end the war primarily because the initial rationale was flawed. I think we are beyond relying on that kind of luxury to determine our future course. Our obligation to make things right in that country trump anything else as far as I'm concerned. Its our mess and now we have an absolute obligation to clean it up. The debate is not when we're getting out of Iraq, but how. The Democratic presidential candidates know that Iraq will end on their watch if they get elected, one way or another, but none of them are prepared to take the blame if we pull out too early and a genocide occurs. Bush deserves the blame for starting the war, but he will not credibly be blamed for how the war ends - believe me, this is exactly why the Democratic presidential candidates are double talking depending on their audience.