So after the long traffic jam we made it to Devil's Hole. You might ask, "What is the story behind Devil's Hole?" I found some info here

It was hot and we brought only a tiny bit of water but it was still fun. For anyone that hasn't been there I would suggest checking it out. It is off the 104 between the rainbow bridge and the Niagara Power project. There are two sets of stairs.




One set next to the parking lot and one further down the trail to come back. You can go right down to the water, close enough to touch it.









Right next to it is Whirlpool Gorge Park which is also pretty but much less rugged. I post some good links when I get back. Here are some images from that park.

(e:mike), (e:terry), (e:matthew) and I decided to head out to devi's hole for a brief hike. We ended up getting stuck on Grand Island just before the north bridge because of accident based traffic jam.



We have moved about 30 feet in the last 45 minutes, argh. Mike has no air conditioning at least we wern't stuck by the ultra toxic south bridge. I think I would have died.

(e:terry) wearing his (e:terry) shirt and reading a book.

(e:mathew) trying to hide form the sun he was stuck in for about an hour

(e:mike) trying to look mafia.

(e:jason) [inlink]jason,211[/inlink] thanks for turning the discussion to nuclear weapons instead of site politic. I would most like to respond to your question about " What is preferable, dropping a nuke or using infantry to cut, shoot, and maim?"

In my opinion using infantry to cut, shoot, and main is a better option to nuclear war on several accounts.

Nuclear war make such an extreme abstraction of mass murder. An abstraction that makes killing easier. I do not think that the a man who killed hundred of thousands of people should be afforded the comfort of this abstraction. It becomes, one man pressing a button instead of thousands of people having to cut each other open and witness the agonizing terror of death. Moreover, one man could never kill hundreds of thousands of people with a knife or even a machine gun.

While the Japanese were feirce and terrible, we can jusge this by their actions in China, we also cannot say for certain that every Japanese man, woman and child of hiroshima and nagasaki would have fought to the death. For all we know there were tens of thousands of peaceful, anti-war citizens that lived in those cities. I imagine that at that late point in the war, most japanese war mongering men were at the forefront of the war, and not living at home in the city. Most of the people that were probably left were the woman, children, and old people.

That is how it was for my grandmother's family in Italy. All of her brothers left for the war, with her left much in charge of the family farm. Unlike the infantry option, nuclear attack left no chance for the people of hiroshima and nagasaki to surrender. They were instantly incinerated or slowly died of radiation sickness. The people who were "condemned with no trial" were not necessarily war mongers, yet they suffered greatly for the "sins of their country."

You can write whatever you want, as you always have, just don't expect that I wouldn't ever disagree with you. As (e:uncutsaniflush) [inlink]uncutsaniflush,88[/inlink] said is his excellent review of the situation, I am not the voice of (e:strip), I am just paul.

(e:joshua) [inlink]joshua,37[/inlink]Why do you keep suggesting that

"my own thoughts in my own journal are not welcome here at elmwoodstrip.com"

By the way I have never seen the daily show and have no idea what it is about. No one has not stoppped you from expressing anything and I have only offered my opinion in counter to yours. Is it wrong that I disagree with your justifcation for nuclear holocaust? I was most interested in debating your opinion about this, one which I disagree with. Instead of discussing any of the information on my journal about the atomic bombing, you attacked the site for being liberal extremist, which it is not and consistantly whine about how you don't get a chance to say what you want about the topic. No one is stopping you from writing on your journal. If no one disagreed with anything the site would be totally boring. It is the fact that we all have differing opinions that makes it exciting. That doesn't mean that I accept all opinions.

If the site was really how you described it, I would have censured you from publication. People disagree, part of protecting the freedom to say whatever we want is that other people can say whatever they want in response.

I have no interest in participating in a "community" site named after my community where people are going to be outrightly judgmental and dismissive. That to me is unprofessional and shows a lack of tolerance for people who think differently... which is unusual IMO considering that the average Elmwood resident considers themselves to be very tolerant and open-minded.

First of all, I never said I was open-minded, especially when it comes to killing. I am not even interested in the slighest at becomming more open minded in the field of atmmic warefare. Secondly, I also am not offering this site as a tool to you in a professional capacity, so I don't know what you mean by unprofessional. By paying the thousands of dollars it took to run this site over the last three years, and providing a space for people with differing opinions to write, I feel that I am being more than fair enough to the mass spectrum of views. And that is something I don't see many people doing from either side of the spectrum. I think you can give me credit for that at least. I mean where is the community that you set up giving the opposing viewpoint a highly visable public forum?

Thinking about the sheer number of civilians and military that died that day anybody with a heart would feel their heart sink to their feet. On the other hand - ...
Quoted from (e:Joshua)

I was going to ignore this but I just couldn't. Joshua, I have honestly lost all respect for you. I have tried to put aside political differences we have had in order to try and see past the party lines into the man you are. However, today I remained both stunned and puzzled at you total lack of compassion. On a day when people are remembering the intense suffering of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, you are going to justify the reasons why incinerating an entire city with an nuclear bomb was an appropriate response? You sound like Osama bin Laden justifying that it was necessary to kill all of the civilians in the world trade center.

I would rather give up my freedom or just die than be responsible or even justify the death of all of those innocent people. It is never reasonable to kill hundreds of thousands of people at once. It is never reasonable to kill civilians.

What makes me even more upset is that I am sure you only offer that sentiment today as a way of getting attention for yourself as you know it would inflame people. This may be an incorrect assumption on my part but honestly, but I cannot imagine why, on such a day of remembrance, that anyone would pull out the same tiresome rationale for mass death that we have already heard since 9th grade global studies It makes me sick, almost as sick as the fact that the pilot for the Enola Gay, was at a 1997 book signing in Vegas for his book about it. I think he should have been tried for crimes against humanity.

Account of the bombing and aftermath by a catholic priest

Beneath the wreckage of the houses along the way, many have been trapped and they scream to be rescued from the oncoming flames. They must be left to their fate. The way to the place in the city to which one desires to flee is no longer open and one must make for Asano Park. Fukai does not want to go further and remains behind. He has not been heard from since. In the park, we take refuge on the bank of the river. A very violent whirlwind now begins to uproot large trees, and lifts them high into the air. As it reaches the water, a waterspout forms which is approximately 100 meters high. The violence of the storm luckily passes us by. Some distance away, however, where numerous refugees have taken shelter, many are blown into the river. Almost all who are in the vicinity have been injured and have lost relatives who have been pinned under the wreckage or who have been lost sight of during the flight. There is no help for the wounded and some die. No one pays any attention to a dead man lying nearby.Quoted from: Hiroshima -- August 6th, 1945 | The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki | Historical Documents | atomicarchive.com

Account of the bombing from the pilot's perspective

"Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans."
("Public Papers of the Presidents: Harry S Truman, 1945", pg. 212).

Do you think Truman was refering to this charred little girl?