metalpeter - 02/15/08 17:34
That is awesome it really is. I thought I heard about this before and then the story kinda went away so I'm not sure if it is this story or if I heard about one last year. I think of it as them making it so people who aren't happy can now get one who couldn't because of money or cause they where holding off for some reason.

james - 02/03/08 20:09
Oh, (e:James) has no mercy for you missy!

You can go to a polling place and still vote. There is a special form or another you have to fill out. It will be fun.

janelle - 01/29/08 15:11
I liked the professors I worked under in grad school too. One of them used to run up and down the hallways doing stuff really fast and he expected me to follow him around so I had to wear running shoes to work.

jenks - 01/23/08 16:32
well first of all I think calling it 'infanticide' is a bit of a stretch.
But I think it's going to happen, whether it's legal or not, unfortunately. So we might as well make it SAFE. And obviously work on education etc to prevent the NEED.
I totally agree with 'safe, legal, and rare'.
I don't think pro-choice has to mean pro-abortion. And I hate the way people make it sound like it's the opposite of pro-life- It's pro-CHOICE not pro-DEATH. I think I should get to make the decisions about my body. That said- would I ever be able to bring myself to have an abortion? I dunno... Just b/c I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I think abortion is the only answer.

drew - 01/22/08 20:59
yeah, I don't think changing the question will lead to the perfect solution, I just think it will find us a better compromise.

jason - 01/22/08 20:44
Well, I guess I should elaborate further then.

What I mean by a perfect answer is a solution that 100% of the people are going to be happy with.

Now, that is not to say that it invalidates your question, which I think is exactly the right one to be asking. I care about results the most, not clinging hopelessly to ideology.

Nor does it invalidate your premise, which is to have people from two groups come together. I don't think you get 100% of the people, but you do get a huge majority, enough to find a solution that works for most. I'm willing to live with that.

I think our perspectives on it are basically the same, unless you think there IS a perfect solution out there (my definition) - in which case I am all ears, because I've tried like crazy to influence people based on an appeal to common sense - "What is worse to you, education, prevention, or an abortion?" - and some of them always want things on their terms.

drew - 01/22/08 19:50
I don't follow you Jason. It seems like you are criticizing my position as too idealist, and taking that same position at the same time.

jason - 01/22/08 18:20
Nothing you said is at all offensive, Museumchick. Leave that to me and Josh in these parts.

Roe v. Wade was, and remains of course, a shockingly bad legal decision, although debating the nerdy merits of a legal decision seems rather silly when you're talking life versus death.

To me, the fact that you feel uneasy about things does not reveal a lack of a spine - no - it means you have a better understanding than most that it just isn't a perfect world, and there are no perfect answers.

It is because we understand that while infanticide is not new to us, the technology has gotten much better, and so we can smile and feel better about ourselves than our barbaric ancestors.

(e:Drew)'s understanding of this, as a Christian, is not at all different than my Mormon Uncle's understanding of it. The words of my Uncle were, it is isn't a perfect world, Jason.

I completely agree that the answer is to have abortions be safe, legal, and rare - the Clinton definition - and that we can't afford to be choosy concerning methods of prevention.

metalpeter - 01/22/08 17:47
First of all for (e:drew) I wanted to say that there is a movement that tries to cut down on the amount of abortions. They are not pro choice or pro life they try to cut down on the number of abortions. I'm not sure how it works really.

In terms of abortions maybe they are not as bad as some people think. I'm not saying that Abortions should be encouraged. But what if teens who have no business having kids and who have sex as a way to find love that they never got cause daddy was never there might be better off. This way they don't have 4 kids and pull the community down. Then they have kids who they can't take care of who get screwed up and have a horid life. Again these are the kids that won't get adopted so they would just wind up being in foster care if they where given away.

My belief is that women should have a right to abort the baby. I do agree that once it is the 3rd trimester it should be illegal. I also think that any place that gives abortions should half to have information about other options like adoption. I do think that abortion clinics should be safe. Moraly it is up to the person who does it. I would rather it be safe for those people who decide to do it. The one thing I wonder is will there ever be a time that through science if a man wants the kid and the women doesn't if they will have some way to do that, the point can be made that the fathers have no rights here and that is kinda true but it isn't there body so.

james - 01/22/08 16:58
Jane Roe, of Roe V Wade fame, became anti-choice in the 90's. She today endorsed Ron Paul for President saying they both 'want to overturn Roe V. Wade'. which I found to be worth a giggle at least.

I think Drew has a good comment as well. After all, it isn't as if abortions didn't happen when they were illegal. The social conditions which drive people to it are around whether or not it it legal. Better to make the world a better place than to put a band-aid on it.

drew - 01/22/08 16:42
I've come to the conclusion that, "Should abortion be legal (or illegal)?" is the wrong question. A better question is, "How can we minimize the number of abortions?" People that are pro-choice and pro-life can work together on that one.

jenks - 01/18/08 17:44
haha, WOW.
I've never solved one, blindfold or no.
Maybe it's time to try again!