This is an inappropriate journal about an inappropriate incident I had with Jesus in my office cubicle at Roswell today. It is actually kind of hard to write about it because I feel like I am self censoring beyond my natural limit of self censorship. I am kind of still in shock about it. I am sure it will make everyone uncomfortable, but right now I don't care.

Preface: Just the other day I had this conversation with (e:mathew) and (e:terry) how it is so wonderful to work with a Christians who so far have not tried shoving it down my throat. Religion is such a weird thing for me, like I never think about it until someone brings it up in my face.



You know that feeling when you are about to approach a Christian and talk to them about letting atheism and sinful living into their hearts but then something holds you back, like say you are somewhere inappropriate like work... How come so many do not have that kind of boundary.

Flashback to my life two hours ago...

I knew something was fishy because this coworker always wants to talk to me about "stuff" and "plans." Its always mixed in with programming questions and some business talk so it has this notion of legitimacy but then there is this underlying, unspoken something I wasn't able to place. For a while, I thought maybe he was gay.

So anyhow, I kind of ignored the situation, combined with crazy deadlines, I hadn't had time to see him for a while and kind of forgot about the "Stuff."

Then today after his day was done, he stopped at my cubicle to ask some Date and Time functions and I was explaining that the one type of date was only good until 2036ish if used in a 10 digit format. He then informed me that it would not matter because the world is ending and that his kids would not see their natural lives out. Something like 2012 I think. I mistakenly asked him about his reasoning on this to discover the bible clearly says it.

This was the beginning of a two hour cubicle confrontation which tried to save my soul and open my heart to Jesus via his scary God and fear f Satan tactics. At one point he was crying on the floor of my cubicle. A 50 year dude, on the floor of my cubicle, across the entrance - crying.

Looking back on it, I wonder now if it was all a setup. The request for help and more literally the date/time question. All to try and get at my soul.

I am not joking it was literally the most uncomfortable moment of my life but I didn't know how to make it stop. We were able to confirm that I am a lying, thieving adulterer and that even intellectuals can be Christian.

To his credit he asked me at one point if it was making me uncomfortable. I didn't say anything but it made me more uncomfortable thinking about him maybe wigging out if I said it made me uncomfortable. I figure I should probably just never have that experience instead of having it.

He probably interpreted my lacking of asking him to leave as some form of divine intervention but really I just didn't want to experience him wigging out. I mean I clearly told him that i was not interested, that I am not into fantasy, that I am gay, that I have no spiritual inclination, that I am not afraid of dying, that I don't believe god exists, that I don't care who made the universe before evolution, that I am comfortable with questions remaining unanswered or too complex for me to understand- all hoping he would just go away with that.

I said, How am I supposed to understand the universe and evolution when I don't even understand how the sewer system works. And I don't need a mystical explanation for that. I also told him it would take a full on visual miracle where I talked to Jesus for an extended amount of time with other people present to believe in it. None, of this he came to me in a dream, or I felt his presence kind of magic.

At one point I even said that I was not interested in his heaven because none of the people dear to me would be there as Catholics seemed to be excluded as well. According to him I was too comfortable in my life, and that it is easy to convert people who are having a hard time but in order to convert comfortable people they have to experience what it is like to be uncomfortable. I wasn't sure if he was directly referring to out encounter in my cubicle or something greater.

I just felt bad for him, and I know he was feeling bad for my soul - but it seemed to concern him so much more than me.

I wish could remain work related all the time. I know it sound ridiculous to essentially cut out the outside world but frankly, I don't want to ever have that happen again. I guess, I probably deserve it for being such a hardcore sinner ;)

This is something I never thought I would have happen at a state job. If (e:enknot) didn't catch me mouthing the words " help" as his wandered by, I think it might have never ended. I think everyone at work is a born again Christian which is making me feel altogether uncomfortable now that this has happened. Can such a wonderful workplace experience end so quickly, do I really need to move to a more godless place like California now? I figured instead of telling anyone specifically about it, I am going to to the world and hope for the best. It is better than having it be some weird secret. It's kind of sad because now I feel weird about talking with him and before I really respected the guy and his dedication to learning the language I am using. I wonder if it was all a ploy to capture my soul like some sort of pokemon treasure.

P.S. I am thoroughly disappointed with Satan for not shielding me more substantially from the word. Ya, if only I believed in him either.

(e:enknot), (e:jim) and I were standing on the corner of Main Street and Virginia next to the Scientologist building in Buffalo New York when some blond leggy scientology chick comes screaming at us - saying that she needs to talk with us about a stress test.

All of a sudden (e:enknot) busts out with "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU YOUR CRAZY PSYCHO, YOU ARE A FREAK, YOU ARE A FREAK!!"

I love it when people get in the face of religious weirdos getting in their face. She started screaming back about how he was crazy or something. I am so sick of the way those Scientology freaks on Main Street in Buffalo, New York rule the sidewalks there. Anytime I have to walk down main street I have to cross the street to avoid being harassed by them in their big yellow tent. There is a picture of it at the Bush Protest from 2004 on the news journal from the protest (e:news,29822)

I think it should be illegal for them to set up on the street the way they do. Eventually, it is going to cause an accident when someone gets hit by a car trying to avoid them by crossing or walking in the street.

He is some info about their presence in Buffalo

What is the deal with all their crosses. At first I kind of assumed they were christians of some sort but then I read this

So what is the deal with the crosses? This is their official site with pictures of their building on Main Street in Buffalo New York

Apparently, they even harass children

All I can say is that like any religious group that is secretive and close knit - they scare the fuck out me like children of the corn

I think this letter is the best all just seems so whack

UPDATE - I found this later I is pretty interesting

In response to (e:jim,39535)

First of all I would like to say I totally support people's freedom to believe whatever they want as long as they don't get tax breaks on it and I don't have to pay for any part of it.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone but as an athiest, gay, polygamist my sheer existence is probably offense enough for most people, although, honestly - I think I pull it off with grace, pun intended.

I believe that religion does bring happiness, kindness, joy, compassion and union to many people. It standardizes and codifies the way that humans should act with one another.

It is not the only thing that can bring these emotions. Any group with a common belief system can share these feelings without a spiritual context. People having these emotions in a religious context often believe it is the spiritual aspect that causes it.

The thing about religion is that it also causes so many problems. People fight wars over religions and kill people in the name of jesus and other magicians. I know all you good christians can't believe it, but it is true. Other people kill other people for not believing in Jesus - not only that - they kill them for not believing in him, in prescribed way.

I am not the kind of athiest that screams about it. I am definitely not interested in converting other people to it, but that doesn't seem to stop so any people for trying to get me interested in their spiritual beliefs which offends the hell out of me.

That is why in fact I am an athiest, because I don't care about religion or the absense of it. I would rather describe myself as someone who never considers spiritual aspect of religion or the absense of it very much. If I never had to hear the word spiritual or religion one more time, I would not be athiest. I would be in perfect harmony, lol.

I read the bible, and I am over it - like I am over Alice and Wonderland and The Hardy Boys - learned some valuable lessons but the magic part is pretty hokey to me.

Okay, check this out - I am going to go get a random bible quote from the internet and see why I don't need the book. Here it is

Galatians 5:22-23

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

Seems reasonable, guess what - I could think of it myself. I pity the people that can't think of this but I know they exist. I guess I can consider myself luckily for having the education to even consider these things. Maybe in previous times, it was necessary to have these ideas given to you.

Then I roll the die again to find:

"Romans 12:13

Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality."

Here we are back in magic land and there lies my problem with the book. Showing hospitality is a fine goal, contributing to the needs of the saints is questionable and sketchy. I mean who defines the needs of the saints.

Okay one more time this is too fun

Thessalonians 5:15

See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone.

This one is great but once again, I could totally think of it myself. At least it is a noble goal.

And again.

Samuel 2:2
"There is none holy like the LORD; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God."

While this is freaky and dangerous. It is the basis of war.

I feel that I have the capibility to understand human interactions without guidance from people in an ancient world or divine intervention. In fact, I think it is a unfortunate that the book mixes these two messages together - the message of treating people kindly and that you need to believe in the power of the mighty magic wizard, his halfling son and their sidekick ghost. It seems like the message could be much more powerful divorced from the book. Why can't human interaction and social etiquette be secular? I mean why not distill the bible down into a smaller book of ways to live your life without the spiritual bullshit.

I have seen so many people fall down the slippery slope of having their life suck because they were a bad person, then turning to church, the people they meet are nice and kind and then - bang they are in magic land and keep asking me to come visit it - when I wasn't having any problems in the first place.

CONCLUSION

I just had a brilliant realization while writing this. aybe I will change the world. I am going to create a new religion based on the Paul Visco interpretation of the bible. See, you think I am joking but what I plan to do is take the magic out of the bible. Same great book, less agic. That way the next time someone tries to tell me the magic book is really about a moral code about how to treat other people, I can say - no that book is full of magic sdtories, what you need is the Visco Bible.

Basically, I am saying that belief in God is not totally harmless for everyone or the advancement of science unless believers do nothing to act on their beliefs when they conflict with science.

Religion is not a hindrance to advancing as a people scientifically, intellectually, or otherwise. To state otherwise is patently false and ignores the totality of human existence. [inlink]jason,298[/inlink] --jason

Jason, don't know about patently false, that sounds like a bit of an exaggeration in country where we have been fighting to teach evolution [inlink]paul,3438[/inlink] in school for a century and where people are dying of all sort of diseases that can be cured or alleviated by advancements associated with stem cell research.

I think you could say, "Believing in religion, without acting upon it, is not a hindrance to advancing as a people scientifically, intellectually, or otherwise. " But who believs in religion without acting upon it. And if they do, do they really believe?

I would like to use this example speech at whitehouse.gov by the President George Bush in regard to Stem Cell research as an example of when religious influence hinders science.

I've asked those questions and others of scientists, scholars, bioethicists, religious leaders, doctors, researchers, members of Congress, my Cabinet, and my friends. I have read heartfelt letters from many Americans. I have given this issue a great deal of thought, prayer and considerable reflection. And I have found widespread disagreement . . . Thank you for listening. Good night, and God bless America. --GW Bush

I don't want the social and legal policy I am subjected to based on my ultimate executive's prayer power in any way.

Surely, we can develop other methods of getting stem cells in the future so that we can avoid having to use embryonic ones. But the embryonic stem cell method exists here now and many people could be helped by the research that will be dead by the time we catch up with other methods. Furthermore, I am terrified of other countries having access to this technology before we do. Especially China.

Saying "I believeeeee in God" has never hindered me in any way, and it never will. -jason

That is fine for you because you are the one believing but what about the people whose lives affected by the social and legal policy agenda set forth by the believers. Belief in God is not safe in a free society where the people with the belief are also able to make social and legal policy based on those beliefs, for people that do not believe in the same God or do not believe in God at all. And if the people making policy that believ in God do not let God's desires influence them, then do they really believ in God?

There isn't anyone alive who can say with any matter of truth or authority God is real or not.[inlink]jason,298[/inlink] --jason

I think this is precisely why many people are uncomfortable submitted to the desires of God's moral and ethic code.

[inlink]joshua,73[/inlink] My gut reaction to them was that I didn't like them having nothing to do with Mike Niman or the coop. It goes back to 1995 when I hosted this big vegan picnic/meeting at artpark and they showed up to get their religion on. (e:hodown) and I didn't hit it off well with them as you can imagine, (e:hodown) asked them to leave, and they left.

Here is their official site and some official quotes

What is your stance on homosexuality?

We do not approve of homosexual behavior. We do not regard it as a genetic variation, a valid alternative lifestyle, or a mere psychological quirk. We embrace what God says on this subject without regard for political correctness. Homosexual behavior is immoral and can be mortally dangerous.

Quoted from: The Twelve Tribes : Social Issues FAQ

Not a big surprise for any religious fanatical group but it does make me hate them with the same passion I have for fundamentalist christians.

We desire to speak proper English, free from slang and vulgarity, in the midst of every audio and visual stimulus to the contrary flooding our senses.

Quoted from: The Twelve Tribes : We Make No Apology%u2026

Gee - what do you think this means when translated.

Do you spank your children?

Yes, we do. We love our children and consider them precious and wonderful. Because we love them we do spank them. ... When they are disobedient or intentionally hurtful to others we spank them with a small reed-like rod, which only inflicts pain and not damage....The Columbine tragedy in particular points to the potentially terrible consequences of children left to themselves, who are not held accountable for their actions.

Quoted from: The Twelve Tribes : Family FAQs

Here is a site that people who have escaped made

Here is an expose by a man who is really angry about them

The history of

You can also visit their storeon South Creek in Hamburg (MAP TO: 327 BUFFALO ST) There commune is somewhere around 18 mile creek.

What is this going to mean for P2P technology such as (e:shawnr) 's blogtorrent. Also what about tape decks and CD burners. Are they the next to go?

Technology for trading files on the Internet unanimously condemned by U.S. Supreme Court.

Online peer-to-peer networks can be held liable for users' illegal file trading, said the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday.

The Court ruled unanimously against Grokster, upholding a Hollywood coalition's allegation that software developers violate federal law when they provide the means to share copyrighted music and movies.

"We hold that one who distributes a device with the object of promoting its use to infringe copyright, as shown by the clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement, is liable for the resulting acts of infringement by third parties," Justice David H. Souter wrote for the court.Quoted from: RED HERRING | Grokster Loses =Grokster Loses &sector=Industries&subsector=EntertainmentAndMedia

This is even crazier. What context is "part of a broader display of historical symbols?" I wonder what woul dhappen if we pushed to get lots of islamic symbols display as parts of historical symbol art projects on federal land. Someone really needs to test this.

Ten Commandments Display Allowed by U.S. High Court (Update3)

June 27 (Bloomberg) -- Governments can post the Ten Commandments on public property as part of a broader display of historical symbols, as long as officials aren't aiming to promote religion, the U.S. Supreme Court said.Quoted from: Bloomberg.com: U.S.

In response to (e:jason) [inlink]jason,159[/inlink]: Science does make many mistakes, and because we were not directly involved in the research for most of scientific discovery, it is easy to write off science as a blind faith initiaitive such as religion. (e:matthew) and I argue with (e:terry) about this all the time.

However, there is a problem with just writing off scientific inquiry and that is that it works much of the time. Predicition through repeated and controlled observation is often an accurate methodology. Most of our lives are dependent on technological innovations based on this scientific method, the same method used to demonstrate the theory evolution. I think it is really important, that although we teach public school children that evolution is a theory, that we also do not deny the obvious fossil record and the many expirements conducted.

There really is a difference between, god created the people 10,000 years ago on a whim and we started as little one-celled creature that turned into ourselves. I could maybe even accept that people say that at some point the cosmos was created by god because science has no explanation for the extriverse.

We also have talked about the occurance of evolution in today's world. It is dangerous to talk about because it can easily end up having hitlerian, social darwinist overtones. I think humans have used science to control evolution and that for a while now we are in a standstill of evolution because anything that would lead to extinction through natural selection is often overcome through science. This keeps gene pool pretty constant(this is pure speculation, I am not a scientist). In America there is almost nothing outside of random chance and a few terminal illnesses that prevent children from making it to breeding age. Without the natural selection of death before reproductive maturity, what is evolution.

Another issue with continued evolution is that as humans we seem to cheerish conformity, to the point that if someone is born with six fingers or some other new development, they are often cosmetically fixed to appear and function as a normal human, e.g. the sixth finger is fused or removed. Therefore, we would never have the chance to see the advantage of the extra digit play out it's influence on the reproductive capabilities of its possesor.

It is particularly important to think about these issues in the age of genetic engineering, cloning and experimentation, as we are going to be able to control evolution on a much more precise level. If we continue to block and ignore scientific inquiry in those directions, by asserting that evoltion is fiction and creating laws to stop genetic research on cloning as the right wing christian conservatives would have it, then we are going to have a situation where our children sit home and pray for a miracle to stop "evolution" while other societies create superhumans and begin the claim their position, as the next evolutionary phase. I often think that the idea of blocking evolution in school is to prevent the development of scientists interested in genetic engineering.

In our lifetimes, we will most likely see evolution from a totally different perspective, with genetic capitalism at play. Within our lifetimes the techology will exist to choose if you kid has strong legs or blond hair. In my opinion, designer babies, the avenue where evolution meets capitalism will be the biggest test of evolutionary theory to ever happen. I think at that point we will also most likely see the major fork in the road for hardcore capitalist conservatives and the christian right which right now are often united.

I for one am totally excited about this. I mean nothing else is natural any more. I am not half as excited as I am about the opportunity to become a cyborg but I am still exicted. I mean I can see how it could be horrible and that the rich and powerful will only beco
me more beautiful and healthy but I still think it is an exciting step toward controlling our destiny. If only it could be dealt with, within a more egalitarian government structure and society - it could have potential. Though maybe not even then.

I have more to say about this, but I doubt anyone will even read this far. What do you guys think. I had also talked about this before a bit here [inlink]paul,3433[/inlink].

Cat Stevens, whose name is now Yusuf Islam showed up on some US terror list which resulted in the forced landing of a plane he was on and his denial of entry into the US. I totally understand why people are outraged that some innocent person could show up on a list and cause such drama in our present terror state of alert. And I realize this is just another part of Big Brother getting bigger but I have to question what makes us assume that because someone wrote music in the 70s that they couldn't be a terrorist now.

I am not suggesting that Cat Stevens is a terrorist, I am just saying that because someone was famous at one point in American pop culture doesn't make them innocent.

Cat Stevens himself is a little too weird for me. I guess I really don't understand people that are so commited to any religion that they feel it appropriate to change their name. Esther(madonna) is at the top of that list. He started out as Stephen Georgiou, then changed his name to Cat Stevens, and is now Yusuf Islam. People that do that weird me out. What are they so unconfortable with that they radically change their name. Its not like changing from Bryan to Brian. It's like name plastic surgery.

Quote from -
He abandoned his music career in the late 1970s and changed his name after being persuaded by orthodox Muslim teachers that his lifestyle was forbidden by Islamic law. He later became a teacher and an advocate for his religion, founding a Muslim school in London in 1983.

So my question is really why can't Yosuf Islam be a terrorist?

Another Google News Quote - "The French National Assembly has overwhelmingly voted a ban on "visible" religious adornments in public schools."

I am sure this makes people really angry but I say, "more power to you secular government!" I would like to see an all out ban on religion in France, as a model of social evolution for the world!!! I would like to see Buffalo follow in the model.